No deal for ual

[jtf]

If we want to get more leverage, we will need to pay more union fees so that our unions can buy the congress representatives just like every other successful business. The rules as they stand are so heavily stacked against us that nothing short of a truely epic pilot shortage will ever really raise the bar to past levels and beyond. Just voting Democratic or talking to your representatives really doesn't do anything with the current rules. We must pay to have them changed. We are supposedly super well paid so we in theory should be able to pony up enough to buy the votes needed to get us out of the RLA. I'd be OK with acting presidents stopping a strike or two if we could get rid of the rules that allow unions to be sued for "job actions" by making sick-outs, intentional slow flights and taxiing to screw up schedules, and letting pilots band together to refuse junior assignments and refuse to pick up open time. While none of those things truly cripple a company like a strike, the slow bleed works. The rules against those "work actions" are things that could be bought if the unions got together enough and had the money to throw at it. I would be willing to pay more fees if they were truly going towards this.

 

[bpapaDC8]

Andy, NWA wanted the mechanics to strike so they could break the union, which they did.

" About 4,000 mechanics and cleaners walked off their jobs in August of last year. Northwest responded by sending their work to outside vendors or hiring replacement workers."

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2006/11/06/nwamechanics/

Don't you think Bush was briefed on this well in advance?

 

[bpapaDC8]

There is a THEORY that Clinton was not going to help a non-affiliated (non AFLCIO) union. False. Nothing to do with it. He was asked by ALPA reps to postpone...not STOP...the 1997 strike because APA was just plain not ready. They were going to lose and labor was about to get spanked. Clinton followed his advisors and the ALPA attorneys, retained by the APA leadership, to make this decision. And...once again...he did not STOP the strike. He put them into a cooling off period of 60 days. Then they were free to take self help...again.

The APA essentially saved face and got an acceptable contract during the 60 day cooling off period. That's the whole point.

If you have a buddy at American, have him get the story from his union rep and relay it to you in case you have doubts.

 

[bpapaDC8]

A PEB is not always a bad thing. Take the case of the Eastern Airlines strike in 1989. If GHW Bush had PEBed the Eastern strike they may not have fallen into oblivion. Turns out the Bush's are friends of Frank Lorenzo. The pilots were begging for a PEB.

Republicans are the enemy of labor. Democrats are pro labor. Do we really need to rehash this over and over? That said, none of this will change anyone's mind.

 

[Andy]

Republicans are the enemy of labor. Democrats are pro labor. Do we really need to rehash this over and over? That said, none of this will change anyone's mind.

Hmmm. I'll pass that information on to the Chicago teacher's union. They probably need to be reminded that even though Rahm Emanuel is trying to rake them over the coals, it could be worse. ... I just thought I'd beat you to the defense of the Dems on that one.

Andy, NWA wanted the mechanics to strike so they could break the union, which they did.

" About 4,000 mechanics and cleaners walked off their jobs in August of last year. Northwest responded by sending their work to outside vendors or hiring replacement workers."

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2006/11/06/nwamechanics/

Don't you think Bush was briefed on this well in advance?

The outcome was FAR from assured. I thought it could go either way. Had another labor group (pilots, FAs, gate agents) joined the strike, it almost certainly would have succeeded.

But thanks for providing an 'exception' to your original statement that Bush wasn't going to allow any strikes on his watch. Here's a list of strikes that occurred while Bush was president:

Jeffboat wildcat strike (2001, U.S.)
Actors Strike 2001
University of California strikes (2003, U.S.)
2003 Broadway Musicians Strike (US)
Southern California Supermarket strike of 2003–2004 (U.S)
2004 Nippon Professional Baseball strike
2004–05 NHL lockout (U.S. and Canada)
2005 New York City transit strike
2005 UPR strike (Puerto Rico)
2006 USW Strike (U.S. and Canada)
2006 AK Steel Strike (U.S.)
University of Miami 2006 custodial workers' strike (U.S.)
2007 Freightliner wildcat strike (U.S.)
2007 Orange County transit strike (U.S.)
Hayward teachers strike (2007, U.S.)
2007 General Motors strike (U.S.)
2007 Chrysler Autoworkers strike (U.S.)
2007 United Space Alliance strike (U.S.)[3]
2007 Broadway Stagehand Strike (U.S)
SEMCO Energy Gas Company Strike (2007, U.S.)
2007-Pantex Security Guards Strike
2007–2008 Writers Guild of America strike (U.S.)
2008 Puerto Rico Teacher's Federation strike
2008 University of California strike (U.S.)
2008 American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings Inc. strike (U.S.)
2008 Sundance Kabuki Cinema Sex in the City strike (U.S.)
Boeing Machinists Strike of 2008


Almost half of the labor strikes in the world during the Bush presidency were in the US. I recommend that you do a bit of fact checking before quoting MSNBS (MSNBC).

 

[fam62c]

Hmmm. I'll pass that information on to the Chicago teacher's union. They probably need to be reminded that even though Rahm Emanuel is trying to rake them over the coals, it could be worse. ... I just thought I'd beat you to the defense of the Dems on that one.



The outcome was FAR from assured. I thought it could go either way. Had another labor group (pilots, FAs, gate agents) joined the strike, it almost certainly would have succeeded.

But thanks for providing an 'exception' to your original statement that Bush wasn't going to allow any strikes on his watch. Here's a list of strikes that occurred while Bush was president:

Jeffboat wildcat strike (2001, U.S.)
Actors Strike 2001
University of California strikes (2003, U.S.)
2003 Broadway Musicians Strike (US)
Southern California Supermarket strike of 2003–2004 (U.S)
2004 Nippon Professional Baseball strike
2004–05 NHL lockout (U.S. and Canada)
2005 New York City transit strike
2005 UPR strike (Puerto Rico)
2006 USW Strike (U.S. and Canada)
2006 AK Steel Strike (U.S.)
University of Miami 2006 custodial workers' strike (U.S.)
2007 Freightliner wildcat strike (U.S.)
2007 Orange County transit strike (U.S.)
Hayward teachers strike (2007, U.S.)
2007 General Motors strike (U.S.)
2007 Chrysler Autoworkers strike (U.S.)
2007 United Space Alliance strike (U.S.)[3]
2007 Broadway Stagehand Strike (U.S)
SEMCO Energy Gas Company Strike (2007, U.S.)
2007-Pantex Security Guards Strike
2007–2008 Writers Guild of America strike (U.S.)
2008 Puerto Rico Teacher's Federation strike
2008 University of California strike (U.S.)
2008 American Axle & Manufacturing Holdings Inc. strike (U.S.)
2008 Sundance Kabuki Cinema Sex in the City strike (U.S.)
Boeing Machinists Strike of 2008


Almost half of the labor strikes in the world during the Bush presidency were in the US. I recommend that you do a bit of fact checking before quoting MSNBS (MSNBC).

Bush was talking specifically about airline industry strikes. The president can't prevent strikes in the private sector in non railway/airline businesses because they are not under the RLA, you know that.....right?

 

[Andy]

Bush was talking specifically about airline industry strikes. The president can't prevent strikes in the private sector in non railway/airline businesses because they are not under the RLA, you know that.....right?

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 gives presidential power to have an 80 injunction against any strike that is perceived to threaten the national economy. The Taft-Hartley Act is not limited to unions that fall under the RLA.

http://www.owcinfo.org/campaign/ILWU/Slave Labor Act.htm

The Taft-Hartley Act could not have overridden Truman's veto if not for the support of the majority of Democrats in Congress. So much for the Democrats supporting labor.

 

[bpapaDC8]

Try reading Flying the Line, Vol I and II, if you want a good rundown on who was pro-labor vs anti-labor over the past 80 years or so.

 

[bpapaDC8]

Btw, Eastern was under Daddy Bush. Not Dubya.

 

[Andy]

Try reading Flying the Line, Vol I and II, if you want a good rundown on who was pro-labor vs anti-labor over the past 80 years or so.

That's all nice stuff but do you really think that rank and file union members from other occupations see airline pilots as labor? Congress?

We fall in a different category - one that doesn't garner much support from either Dems or Republicans.