No Class A in Hawaii

[Bernoulli]

I was studing the definintions of airspace in the AIM and it basically sas that Class A is located between 18,000 feet MSL and FL 600 over the contiguous 48 states and Alaska and out 12 nautical miles. It does not mention the State of Hawaii. I have heard but not read that there is no class A over Hawaii. So if class Alpha does not exist over the Hawaiian Islands what airspace is between 18,000 ft MSL and FL 600 directly above and 12 nautical miles off the coasts of the Hawaiian Islands. I have heard that it is just class E, and I have also heard that it is just federal airways that extend up to FL 600. Does anyone know and if you do know can you prove it by telling me where the answer is published? If anything, this is a great CFI trivia question. Thanks in advance for any comments.

 

[scubabri]

I lived in Hawaii and got my PPL there... I've also flown above 18K, VFR.

You are right, no Class A and the way the FAR words it is correct.

Brian

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

That really is a great question. I was actually more impressed when a new student pilot friend of mine called me up and asked. At the time 5 pilots with 4 of them growing up in hawaii were instantly stumped. It's agreed that there is no class A in hawaii, but what does it become then-- class G or Class E?

It was agreed that it would make most sense that it is class E, by extrapolating info from the "vertical limits" section of 3-2-6 in the aim. i.e. "class E airspace has no defined verticle limit but rather extends upward from either the surface or a designated altitude to the overlying or adjacent controlled airspace." meaning if there is no overlying controlled airspace (class A) then it would go right on up to the moon. So, yes, anywhere that class E is designated on a chart (federal airways, surface, or 700) that airspace would extend upwards and past 18,000 acording to the above. Other than that i don't see anywhere in the regs that would answere what the other non designated airspace is (class g or international??)

hopefully you don't see this as a hijack, but another good question has to do with ADIZ in hawaii....how come on the VFR sectional they let the entire big island fall outside of the ADIZ?? If you look at the lines drawn on the sectional the big island is outside of it.

 

[great cornholio]

If there is no limit doesnt class G stop at 14,500 no matter what. Or am I thinking of somethin else? So if thats true then it would be class E.

 

[tarp]

...meaning if there is no overlying controlled airspace (class A) then it would go right on up to the moon.

And if I remember correctly from the first days of the Space Shuttle - since there was no overlaying Class A, the space shuttle had to check in with Honolulu Center/Approach as they crossed an airway. They were just a tad high to be in any conflict or get any TCAS warnings, but I seem to remember that they checked in with Honolulu as a courtesy and to be proper!

 

[Bernoulli]

If there is no limit doesnt class G stop at 14,500 no matter what. Or am I thinking of somethin else? So if thats true then it would be class E.

Class G can be found in three places on a sectional chart. 1. From the ground up to 700 feet AGL (inside the soft fuzzy side of the thick magenta lines) 2. From the ground up to 1,200 feet AGL (between the hard side of the thick magenta lines and the soft fuzzy side of the thick blue). 3. From the surface up to 14,500 MSL ( inside the thick fuzzy blue, or in other words, on the hard side of the thick blue lines).

So to answer your question, yes, class G can only extend up to 14,500 MSL... but in Hawaii all class G only goes up to 700 feet AGL because there are no thick fuzzy blue lines anywhere on the Hawaiian sectional.

So do any of you knowledegable CFI's know where the original Hawaii class A answer is published other than in the AIM?

 

[aviator_43]

Basically, you can't have uncontrolled (class G) airspace sitting on top of any sort of controlled airspace (class E,D,C,B, or A). Look at the sectional, find where the designated floor of controlled airspace begins (usually 1,200 AGL, but it can be different) and everything above that is going to be some form of controlled airspace as well.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

If there is no limit doesnt class G stop at 14,500 no matter what

Just to make sure people reading this understand there is an exception....

Class G will extend past 14,500ft msl when it is within 1,500ft of the surface. I have flown around some of this airspace in the rocky mountains and a little in the north west.