NJA/Citation Shares Upgrade Pay Question

[ned plimpton]

Was wondering about first year captain pay at NetJets and Citation Shares....

Example: Let's assume for demonstration purposes that a pilot were to upgrade to captain during Year 5 at either company. Looking at the pay tables on airlinepilotcentral.com, would the new captain be paid the listed captains pay for Year 1, OR since it's his fifth year, would he be paid the listed captains pay for Year 5.

Any insight is appreciated as I've heard conflicting answers to this. Many thanks.

 

[fischman]

At NJA, in your scenario, you would recieve year 5 PIC pay.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

At NJA, in your scenario, you would recieve year 5 PIC pay.

Same @ CS

 

[netjetwife]

Two fine examples of industry standard pay... I'm pleased for the fractional pilots now being paid like the professionals they are and frustrated for those who still are not. Hang in there, guys! NJW

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS, SOME PADDLING REQUIRED

 

[PUCKFA18]

Was wondering about first year captain pay at NetJets and Citation Shares....

Example: Let's assume for demonstration purposes that a pilot were to upgrade to captain during Year 5 at either company. Looking at the pay tables on airlinepilotcentral.com, would the new captain be paid the listed captains pay for Year 1, OR since it's his fifth year, would he be paid the listed captains pay for Year 5.

Any insight is appreciated as I've heard conflicting answers to this. Many thanks.

There are still very big differences between the two (NJA or CS)

QOL
Full Complete Medical, Dental, Vision paid apprx 5-8K first day on campus.
No training on personal time.
extended day and holiday pay
better food (catering)
$400 for uniforms every year
Uniforms completly paid for
No training contract
on and on ..................

 

[Trash8Mofo]

NJ guys,

I have been going over the NetJets' contract, and the pay portion doesn't seem to specify what is the calendar year over calendar year increase (aka horizontal inflation adjustment).

E.g. 2nd year FO in 2008 7on/7off is $59000. What will a 2nd year FO in 2010 get paid? Still $59000?

The only pay increase is longevity increase, e.g. 2nd to 3rd year, 4th to 5th, and so on, and that is about 3.5% every year. Which is about the same as inflation.

If that is the only pay raise per year, wouldn't that means NJ pilots really have no increase in real income (adjusted for inflation) at all until getting upgraded?

 

[fischman]

You raises are on the anniversary of your hire date.

1st year FO on 7&7 is $56,875

2 years later, you would be starting year 3 pay which for a FO on the 7&7 is $63,738

It isn't much more than the 3% COLA, but it is more.

 

[gunfyter]

If that is the only pay raise per year, wouldn't that means NJ pilots really have no increase in real income (adjusted for inflation) at all until getting upgraded?

Yes it does

 

[Sparse]

There are still very big differences between the two (NJA or CS)

QOL
Full Complete Medical, Dental, Vision paid apprx 5-8K first day on campus.
No training on personal time.
extended day and holiday pay
better food (catering)
$400 for uniforms every year
Uniforms completly paid for
No training contract
on and on ..................

Correction:

Medical - they beat CS. We pay a premium that depends on what you chose and how many are covered. It is excellant insurance.

Training on Personal time - this changed. CS trains on tour days and if the sim schedule goes into an off day, it is paid back.

Extended day at CS is paid at 1.5 the daily rate. Holiday pay is rumored to be in the works. At present, we are gauranteed the major holidays off every other year.

Catering - we pay 10 dollars for any meal we order.

Uniforms - No limit. CS pilots get 1 suit coat, 3 pair of pants, 20 shirts, 1 sweater, 1 pair of shoes, 1 wind breaker, 1 heavy winter coat, 1 belt and 3 ties, when your hired. Anytime you need something you just order it. No limit, no questions asked.

one year training contract.

Now that the facts are straight, NJ is probably the better choice, but CS is not all that bad.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

More questions for NJ guys,

Is NJ international represented by Teamster as well? Can a NJA pilot go to NJI without losing seniority? Are there talks of merging two divisions' pilots?

Is it correct that all NJA's planes are <40,000 MTOW except the Falcon 2000?
Thanks

 

[fischman]

NJI is currently not represented by IBT, and NJA will be forming our own in-house union. The vote is in June, but in all honesty, that is a legal formality. It will pass overwhelmingly. Starting in November '08, all new hires for NJI will come from the NJA seniority list.

NetJets has the option to extend our contract until 2016. In order to do this they are basically going to have to merge the 2 companies.

 

[imacdog]

I believe the regular Falcon 2000 is under 40K but the 2000 EASy is over 40K.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

NJI is currently not represented by IBT, and NJA will be forming our own in-house union. The vote is in June, but in all honesty, that is a legal formality. It will pass overwhelmingly. Starting in November '08, all new hires for NJI will come from the NJA seniority list.

NetJets has the option to extend our contract until 2016. In order to do this they are basically going to have to merge the 2 companies.

Why the switch? Are the membership not happy with the 2007CBA? What is the membership unhappy about?

IMHO (and not meant to be whinny, just an observation), the CBA is very good overall, but there are inadequacies: 1) there are no inflation adjustments year over year (e.g. A 5th year captain in 2013 will make the same as a 5th year captain now, which is about 13.5% less in real income adjusted for inflation) 2) CO only contributes $5,166/yr in 401K, thats with the pilot obligated to contribute over $10,000/yr! Other than those, the CBA is peachy!

When a NJA pilot go over to NJI, does he start at year 1 or retain his NJA seniority?

 

[imacdog]

The part about the 401K contribution is incorrect. The company contributes an attitional 50% for every dollar the pilot contributes up to the IRS maximum and 15% of the pilot's salary.

I'll let someone else go into the NJASAP/IBT thing. Mostly the pilot group is unhappy with the way Teamsters National has represented us as a pilot group. I hate to speak for the pilot group but I would say most of us are very pleased with our local leadership and how much they have done for our pilot group.

 

[CA1900]

Why the switch? Are the membership not happy with the 2007CBA? What is the membership unhappy about?

We're happy with our CBA and our leadership. What we're not happy with is paying the IBT nearly 1/4 of our dues money and receiving nothing in return. From handling grievances to negotiating our contract to paying lawyers, all of it has been on us.

Since we're doing all the work and paying all the bills, we believe we can put all that money to better use than simply shipping it off to IBT to be never seen again.

IMHO, the CBA is very good overall, but there are inadequacies...

Of course. If there weren't, we'd never need to negotiate!

CO only contributes $5,333/yr in 401K...

How do you figure that? They'll match 50% of your contribution, up to the 15% of your income, and up to the IRS maximum. 50% of the 2008 IRS maximum of $15,500 is $7,750, not $5,333.

When a NJA pilot go over to NJI, does he start at year 1 or retain his NJA seniority?

NJA seniority.

 

[fischman]

What he said...

 

[Trash8Mofo]

How do you figure that? They'll match 50% of your contribution, up to the 15% of your income, and up to the IRS maximum. 50% of the 2008 IRS maximum of $15,500 is $7,750, not $5,333.

Perhaps I understand it incorrectly, but my calculation is as follows: For year 2008, the max contribution is $15,500. The company match half of what the pilot puts in. So divides $15,500 into three shares, pilot puts in 2, company matches 1. $15,500/3=$5166.67 2009 max contribution is 16,000. So company max match is $5,333.33.

Again, still a very good and industry leading CBA in many aspects. Well done, and thanks for explaining the beef with IBT.

 

[CA1900]

Perhaps I understand it incorrectly, but my calculation is as follows: For year 2008, the max contribution is $15,500. The company match half of what the pilot puts in. So divides $15,500 into three shares, pilot puts in 2, company matches 1. $15,500/3=$5166.67 2009 max contribution is 16,000. So company max match is $5,333.33.

Ah, I see where you're going with it. The $15,500 is the maximum employee contribution, not the max total contribution. If an employee puts the max in -- $15,500 -- the company match would bring the total contribution to $23,250 for that year.

I'd like to see a higher match next time, but it's still a great deal now. Certainly better than the 0% match my previous employer is now offering.

 

[Flex-ible]

Was wondering about first year captain pay at NetJets and Citation Shares....

Example: Let's assume for demonstration purposes that a pilot were to upgrade to captain during Year 5 at either company. Looking at the pay tables on airlinepilotcentral.com, would the new captain be paid the listed captains pay for Year 1, OR since it's his fifth year, would he be paid the listed captains pay for Year 5.

Any insight is appreciated as I've heard conflicting answers to this. Many thanks.

Flexjet captains go down one year. i.e. if you make captain in Year 4, you go to Year 3 Captain pay.

Upgrades rumored to be slowing down. Attrition has dropped to almost zero since the pay raise, recession, and age 65 rule.

 

[Abbey]

Flexjet captains go down one year. i.e. if you make captain in Year 4, you go to Year 3 Captain pay.

Upgrades rumored to be slowing down. Attrition has dropped to almost zero since the pay raise, recession, and age 65 rule.

Turn off CNN and pick up a WSJ. It isn't setting records, but the economy is still writing with black ink.