NJA 7/7 vs flex pay

[FCNelson]

I am curious as to how pay works at NJA. First year pay is ~2270/month. That is based off of working the 17 day schedule.

-I understand if you work the flex schedule (I think that is correct), where you bump up to 21 days of work, you get paid an etra ~900/month. Can anybody correlate this?

-If you are lucky, bid and work the 7 on, 7 off, do you get paid less?

Thanks in advance,

 

[Grizz]

7&7 and 17 day schedules are the same pay. That's why I'd never bid the Flex. I'd go from working 15.5 days a month up to a possible 19 days with only a $875 a month increase in pay. For brand new F/Os, the difference in pay is only $438 a month.

 

[FrontierFan]

I have been on the flex for this quarter and had a good time with it. The company gives you a schedule for three months that specifies what days you will work and which days you will have off. This month I am working 13. Last month I worked 18. The company has the right to change the schedule (thus the Flex) but rarley changes from what they tell you what you will have. For someone like me that lives in base it works pretty well. I earn more and work about the same as the 17 day. For someone that has a long drive to their gateway it would be harder.

My first quarter I was on the 17 day which was close to what I was used to at the airlines (something like a four on three off). For those that wanted it, their were lots of newhires in most of the fleets that recieved 7 on and 7 off right out of indoc.

PM me with any questions

 

[gunfyter]

Not worth it. Extra commuting for more tours will cost you more than you make if you have to commute.

 

[Hawk Driver]

Flex

With the addition of 91K I wouldn't hold my breathe about ONLY working 13 days any longer... Seems the company will probably use you for all 19 days until this is all worked out.

HD

 

[Diesel]

It also might be better to find out about the flex from pilots who have been here longer. Very very very few pilots bid the flex. even fewer captains bid the flex.

Remember you might get a schedule but that doesn' mean jack. You get 4 hard days off a month. You are required to call in every night to find out your duty day for the next day.

You might be scheduled off on a soft day and guess what. You're going to work. Think of it as a charter pilot on a pager.

 

[FCNelson]

Thanks for your replies - and a few more q's as well.....

1. How much extra will a first or second year guy make working the 21 day (flex?) schedule. btw - is flex the correct terminology for the 21 day off schedule?

2. The 21 day work schedule....do they use you every day? I live near a gateway city so it really doesn't matter to me. I'd almost prefer they not use me. How about with the 7/7 or the normal 17 day schedu.

Thanks -

 

[Diesel]

We all prefer them not to use us at all. But with the snafu going on with 91k expect to work everyday except your 4 days off. So that's 19 days a month.

Also know that on the flex your 2 and 3 days turns your SOL. On otherschedules such as the 17 days you need a minimum of 3 days off after each 6 day tour. Also a minimum of 2 days off <5 days of work.

With the flex you are out of luck. 6-1-6-1 till you get 19.

As an fo the pay increase is not worth the extra days and the miserable life your going to have on it.

Frontier fan is a nehire on a falcon. he is not the typical here at netjets. You don't see FO's on the ultra or X on the flex because they will work the wheels off of you. You will probably be hired in the ultra regardless of the time you have. Period. I've seen in the last couple of days new hire ultras coming from delta and major airlines with tons and tons of time and they are in the sweatbox ultra.

Things to remember. Frontierfan is not on the typical schedule or airplane. His experience will vary greatly from those in the U boat, X or 400xp.

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

I’ve got to say Frontier dude is living in a dream land as a Falcon FO.. If he bids out of that job he is crazy especially if he is getting by-pass pay.



Anyway, I’ve been here 6 + years and the last and only time I bid the flex they worked me 8 on 2 off for the whole quarter.

 

[x402]

I’ve got to say Frontier dude is living in a dream land as a Falcon FO.. If he bids out of that job he is crazy especially if he is getting by-pass pay.


Don't think he's on By-pass so he'll have to bid into a different fleet if he wants Capt pay. That could be years for newbies to get those slots.

 

[AirBear8]

What about flex vs. extended duty? ( I think that's what you call it). I heard you can make $250/day by calling scheduling the last day of your trip and volunteer to fly another day if they need you. I know it's not guaranteed like Flex is but if they're really short of pilots it seems like you could make more money doing that. Also, is $250 the right amount for F/O's?

AirBear

 

[x402]

There is a an extended day program. They put out a 'bid' about a week before the dates needed. It is based on seat and senority. Calls the day before tours are done rarely get picked up.
You are correct about the pay, $236.38, for the first day in a month, then 283.66, for every additional day, in the same month.

 

[FCNelson]

So what I'm able to conclude from this thread is the trick is as a newhire is to get into an a/c that will give you the 7/7 schedule as quickly as possible, since you'll be essentially making the same pay as you would with the normal 17 day schedule except with far better QOL, or so it appears from my perspective.

BTW what a/c will give you the 7/7 quicker. Somebody said Citation X in a previous thread, I'm not sure if this is valid or not. I would think the Ultra or VII, but I'm not on the property so what do I really know.

Also - it seems NJA hires into the FO seat of all fleets. Though I expect to continue my career as a professional FO at NJA if hired, would somebody anticipating a 3-4 year stint in the right seat be able to bid from say Ultra FO to Falcon 2000 FO? And say you were to get CA bypass pay, would you lose this if transitioning? Oh, the complexities.....

Thanks a ton for all the perspectives offered in this thread.

FCN

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes you lose bypass pay if you volunteer to FO in another fleet.

may not be any more bypass anyway especially if you are not already on the property.

 

[x402]

I think the X gets FO's to 7/7 the fastest. However, you don't usually get a choice in the matter.
You would be seat locked, under the current CBA, for two years.

Don't expect an upgrade or by-pass pay for a long time (4-5) years.

Let's hope the new contract will have a liveable wage for FO's (and the rest of us).

Good luck

 

[acaTerry]

This is absolutely a 180 degrees from what every NJA pilot I know has said. They all seem to agree on the long upgrade, but they all say that the bypass pay should still only be a year or so.
What gives?

 

[x402]

By-pass went about 18 months last time and only through a HUGE organized effort did we get a bunch of crews off "fo/fo pay."

I am guessing that there will be no by-pass language in the next contract. I would also guess the new contract will be done before another by-pass effort will be sucessful.

Look at the FO pay scale, can you live on it through year 5? That's the conservative position.

 

[El Chupacabra]

By-pass went about 18 months last time and only through a HUGE organized effort did we get a bunch of crews off "fo/fo pay." .

If not for that effort the junior man on PIC pay would be about year 4.

 

[Grizz]

In October I start year 4 pay and I was in the next to last class to get bypass. The class after me, half the guys got bypass...the other half didn't. By the time they actually saw the bypass pay because of our effort in October, a lot of them had been at NetJets for over 2 years.

The failed TA had no provisions for any new pilots getting bypass pay. I don't expect the eventual contract will either. I also don't think any effort to get a junior guy a captain slot in the 400XP is going to work prior to the contract being implemented. If you hired on now, count on F/O wages for 5 years minimum.

 

[El Chupacabra]

So you were the last to get Bypass Pay by Natural Causes. Everyone junior got it by means of a conspiracy. I hate for someone coming on board, base their decision on the belief that can happen again.