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ImbracableCrunk

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Joined
Feb 5, 2003
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Let the games begin . . . er, continue. . .

NWA plans low-cost airline New company would fly smaller jets to smaller markets; pilots threaten to strike bankrupt carrier.
Joel J. Smith / The Detroit News


*****
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Embraer.com
The new carrier could fly Embraer 1770/190s.
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See full image

What it means
Northwest plans to establish a new low-cost carrier, called NewCo for now, to help restore profits. How the move would affect service:
Northwest Airlines
Would continue to fly larger jets long distances and to popular destinations with heavy passenger demand.
NewCo
Would fly new 70- and 100-passenger jets to small and medium-sized markets now served by aircraft that are too big or too expensive to operate on those routes.
Mesaba and Pinnacle airlines
Would continue to serve small and medium-sized markets with aircraft that carry 50 or fewer passengers.
Source: Northwest Airlines
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Northwest Airlines is expected to detail plans today to launch a low-cost carrier in 2007 equipped with 70- to 100-seat jets and staffed by pilots and flights attendants paid at reduced wage scales.
The new airline would fly mainly out of Northwest's major hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis and Memphis to small and medium-sized markets across the United States and Canada, according to a newsletter that will be distributed today to Northwest's 34,000 employees.
Unlike Delta Air Line's Song and United Airline's Ted, which were created as low-cost airlines within an airline, Northwest's new carrier would be a separate company.
Unfettered by Northwest's Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings, the new airline would seek to finance the purchase or lease of 105 new aircraft. But Northwest could face significant hurdles in launching the new carrier, including a threatened strike by the union that represents its pilots.
Northwest, which is losing money and struggling to compete with discount airlines, said the new airline would allow it to efficiently fly to hundreds of destinations. The airline said it can no longer afford to use large jets -- often half empty -- or small regional jets on many routes. The new airline could open up new destinations for travelers in Detroit and other cities.
Northwest hopes to start the airline -- temporarily called NewCo -- next year, with all 105 planes operating by 2010. The airline said it may hold a contest to come up with a permanent name.
"We have an immediate need for aircraft of this size," Doug Steenland, CEO of Northwest, said in the newsletter. "Northwest has more of these small-to-medium-sized markets than any other airline, yet we rely on a fleet that is either too large or small to maximize revenues and profitability in such cities. To operate at a profit, we must invest in these aircraft and we must do so quickly."
Northwest said the new airline has the potential to serve hundreds of destinations across the United States and Canada, but no route schedules have been determined.
Executives said the new airline would not typically compete head-to-head against discount airlines like Spirit Airlines, AirTran or Jet Blue Airways but mostly against legacy carriers that operate on similar routes.
"Establishing a NewCo subsidiary to operate a fleet of new regional jets will generate new economic value for Northwest, lower costs, increase our load factors and provide new work opportunities for our employees," Steenland said.
With Northwest in bankruptcy, Steenland said the airline needed a stand-alone carrier able to borrow money to purchase or lease new aircraft. That would free up Northwest's credit to purchase large aircraft for its fleet.
The new carrier plans to purchase or lease about 60 70-seater and 45 100-seater aircraft. Northwest is looking at the Embraer 170/190 and the Bombardier CRJ700/900 models.
According to the newsletter, Northwest competitors are already using these new jets to fly some of Northwest's key domestic routes at significantly lower cost.
The new carrier would become a Northwest regional Airlink partner with Mesaba Airlines and Pinnacle Airlines, which operate 34- to 50-seat regional aircraft. It would take over some routes that require more capacity than the regional jets offer but less than the large jets in Northwest's fleet. Northwest said a good example would be the route between Detroit and El Paso, Texas.
The airline will seek approval to launch the carrier from its labor unions. It will also seek approval from the judge in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York handling the airline's Chapter 11 case.
If that happens, the pilots union said it would strike Northwest.
"Instead of trying to run away from the employees and having something crammed down our throats by the courts, they should be bargaining with us and doing something that makes sense," said Capt. Mark McClain, chairman of Northwest's pilots union. "We want to do that flying.
"If their view is to let the courts vacate our contract and impose this type of structure, we maintain we have a right to strike. We're making preparations for that now."
The new airline will need 800 pilots. Some of the new hires could be laid-off Northwest pilots. Northwest could also hire furloughed flight attendants or mechanics.
McClain said the union has offered to fly for the new airline if pilots receive the average salary paid by other regional carriers that fly 70- to 100-seat planes.
Airline analyst Michael Boyd of Evergreen, Colo., said a new airline makes sense financially. He expects Northwest and the pilots will reach a settlement.
"I don't think the pilots will strike," Boyd said. "They will find something in the middle. Neither side will get everything they want."
Boyd said that Northwest knows it will significantly lower its costs to get these new aircraft over the DC9s, so they don't want to give them up.
"Looking through the haze of battle," Boyd said, "Northwest is the carrier I'm least worried about. It will all work out."
You can reach Joel J. Smith at (313) 222-2556 or [email protected].


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/BIZ/60105038

Embraer 1770? That thing must be HUGE!
 
McClain said the union has offered to fly for the new airline if pilots receive the average salary paid by other regional carriers that fly 70- to 100-seat planes.

I guess there still is lower pay for a DC9 FO at NWA.
 
What a shock!

NewCo
Would fly new 70- and 100-passenger jets to small and medium-sized markets now served by aircraft that are too big or too expensive to operate on those routes.

(Insert DC-9 wages and gas where you see "too expensive"


Northwest Airlines is expected to detail plans today to launch a low-cost carrier in 2007 equipped with 70- to 100-seat jets and staffed by pilots and flights attendants paid at reduced wage scales.

(Insert ALPA B-scale wages)

The new airline would fly mainly out of Northwest's major hubs in Detroit, Minneapolis and Memphis to small and medium-sized markets across the United States and Canada, according to a newsletter that will be distributed today to Northwest's 34,000 employees.
Unlike Delta Air Line's Song and United Airline's Ted, which were created as low-cost airlines within an airline, Northwest's new carrier would be a separate company.

(Just like *************************S)

Unfettered by Northwest's Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings, the new airline would seek to finance the purchase or lease of 105 new aircraft. But Northwest could face significant hurdles in launching the new carrier, including a threatened strike by the union that represents its pilots.
Northwest, which is losing money and struggling to compete with discount airlines, said the new airline would allow it to efficiently fly to hundreds of destinations. The airline said it can no longer afford to use large jets -- often half empty -- or small regional jets on many routes. The new airline could open up new destinations for travelers in Detroit and other cities.
Northwest hopes to start the airline -- temporarily called NewCo -- next year, with all 105 planes operating by 2010. The airline said it may hold a contest to come up with a permanent name.
"We have an immediate need for aircraft of this size," Doug Steenland, CEO of Northwest, said in the newsletter. "Northwest has more of these small-to-medium-sized markets than any other airline, yet we rely on a fleet that is either too large or small to maximize revenues and profitability in such cities. To operate at a profit, we must invest in these aircraft and we must do so quickly."
Northwest said the new airline has the potential to serve hundreds of destinations across the United States and Canada, but no route schedules have been determined.
Executives said the new airline would not typically compete head-to-head against discount airlines like Spirit Airlines, AirTran or Jet Blue Airways but mostly against legacy carriers that operate on similar routes.
"Establishing a NewCo subsidiary to operate a fleet of new regional jets will generate new economic value for Northwest, lower costs, increase our load factors and provide new work opportunities for our employees," Steenland said.
With Northwest in bankruptcy, Steenland said the airline needed a stand-alone carrier (like *************************S) able to borrow money to purchase or lease new aircraft. That would free up Northwest's credit to purchase large aircraft for its fleet.
The new carrier plans to purchase or lease about 60 70-seater and 45 100-seater aircraft. Northwest is looking at the Embraer 170/190 and the Bombardier CRJ700/900 models.
According to the newsletter, Northwest competitors (MDA and Republic)are already using these new jets to fly some of Northwest's key domestic routes at significantly lower cost.
The new carrier would become a Northwest regional Airlink partner (to screw) Mesaba Airlines and Pinnacle Airlines, which operate 34- to 50-seat regional aircraft. It would take over some routes that require more capacity than the regional jets offer but less than the large jets in Northwest's fleet. Northwest said a good example would be the route between Detroit and El Paso, Texas.
The airline will seek approval to launch the carrier from its labor unions. It will also seek approval from the judge in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York handling the airline's Chapter 11 case.
If that happens, the pilots union said it would strike Northwest.
"Instead of trying to run away from the employees and having something crammed down our throats by the courts, they should be bargaining with us and doing something that makes sense," said Capt. Mark McClain, chairman of Northwest's pilots union. "We want to do that flying. (and create B-scale wages within our union)
"If their view is to let the courts vacate our contract and impose this type of structure, we maintain we have a right to strike. We're making preparations for that now."
The new airline will need 800 pilots. Some of the new hires could be laid-off Northwest pilots. Northwest could also hire furloughed flight attendants or mechanics.
McClain said the union has offered to fly for the new airline if pilots receive the average salary paid by other regional carriers that fly 70- to 100-seat planes.
Airline analyst Michael Boyd of Evergreen, Colo., said a new airline makes sense financially. He expects Northwest and the pilots will (cave in ) and reach a settlement.
"I don't think the pilots will strike," Boyd said. "They will find something in the middle. Neither side will get everything they want." (Like their pensions)


Boyd said that Northwest knows it will significantly lower its costs to get these new aircraft over the DC9s, so they don't want to give them up.
"Looking through the haze of battle," Boyd said, "Northwest is the carrier I'm least worried about. It will all work out."

Of coarse Boyd doesn't have to worry about getting furloughed from NWA and getting hired at NewCo and working for half the wage.
 
I don't know why the links aren't working, but just go to Detnews.com and it is the first article today.

http://www.detnews.com

This is no BS. Okay, it's BS - just not stuff that I made up.
 
Maybe this has been posted before, but I haven't seen it. Is there any legal reason why Mesaba or Pinnacle can't fly these new planes?
 
flyer172r said:
Maybe this has been posted before, but I haven't seen it. Is there any legal reason why Mesaba or Pinnacle can't fly these new planes?

If they gave the flying to PCL or Mesaba they wouldn't be able to whipsaw the pilots.
 
Heyas,

This is all whats called "negotiating in the press". Old tactic.

Here's another...STRIKE, which is exactly what will happen if NWA management tries to impose this.

Ah, yea, to those tools that say "Yea, good, strike and lose your job"...well, they are OUR jobs to lose, should we so desire. At lease we can look ourselves in the mirror.

Nu
 
Nu -

Sure, they're YOUR jobs to lose, so you can look at yourselves in the mirror. But you'll also force the shut down of Pinnacle and Mesaba and force all those thousands of folks out of work too. Bet you'll love doing that huh? It doesn't matter to you guys as we're the "enemies" right?

Since when has NWA ever wanted NewCo to operate a/c under 76 seats? It was my impression that the companies wish list included Airlinkers flying 75 and fewer seats, Newco flying 76-100 seats and mainline flying 101+ seats. Have they changed their tune again or is this their new proposal?


FO
 
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flyer172r said:
Maybe this has been posted before, but I haven't seen it. Is there any legal reason why Mesaba or Pinnacle can't fly these new planes?

Yes.

1) The NW pilots Scope Clause.
2) An agreement between ALPA/NW pilots and NWA that allows NWA to bypass MSA and PCL and go to a third provider.

Be careful what you ask for, sometimes you get it.
 
flap operator said:
Nu -

Sure, they're YOUR jobs to lose, so you can look at yourselves in the mirror. But you'll also force the shut down of Pinnacle and Mesaba and force all those thousands of folks out of work too. Bet you'll love doing that huh? It doesn't matter to you guys as we're the "enemies" right?

I won't say enemies, but how about "unfortunate bystanders". If you don't want to get hit with a pie, stay out of the food fight.

You came to work knowing that Pinnacle and Mesaba's wagons were hitched to NWA. You might as well be flying for Braniff Express. But you also knew that that the aircraft you could potentially fly WAS LIMITED by the NWA ALPA CBA. If you went to PCL thinking you'd fly a CL-900, then you are an idiot.

The NWA pilots can give two $hits about what aircraft NWA management wants to fly at NEWCO. As far as NWA pilots are concerned, NEWCO is DOA.

It is the NWA pilots position that ANYTHING over 55 seats belongs to NWA pilots. If the company wants it bad enough, it can pay the price tag.

"Oh, but the judge will see to that"...yup, and the next step will an "unfortunate labor confrontation". Count on it.


Nu
 
Oh they left a pretty big issue out of the press releases. Once the scope clause is dissolved, NewCo aircraft will be up for a RFP for any airline. Why is there a RFP for 100+ 76'ers if they are only buying 60?
 
Is it any concidence that this is happening right after the Ho-Jets single carrier petition loss? Open the floodgates.
 
Hey Nu,
Just remember that all of this is in the hands of the judge. Don't waste your time pointing your finger at us, you better start convincing the senior guys that No paycheck would be better than a smaller paycheck. Scope will crumble like a stale Christmas cookie.
 
Nu -

As if anyone would have known the market and industry conditions that we face today while trying to get a job 5 years ago! I knew full well what Mesaba's relationship with NWA was all about. I didn't realize however at the time how willing NWA pilots would be to stab fellow pilots in the back. I also never realized how patronizing and evil some of your fellow colleagues can be towards Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots.

You seem to think that we at Mesaba WANT ALL YOUR FLYING!! Get off your high horse you arogant mainliner! We just want to keep our careers on a straight path! We're trying to plug the holes in our dykes at XJ thanks to your company and we're just along for the ride. Again, we don't want to be NewCo, fly 100 seat a/c or anyhting that you're already flying. We want to remain employed, feed our families, feed ourselves and make some kind of sense our of this whole cesspool of an industry.

Did you ever stop to think how NWAs actions are affecting Airlink? Didn't think so. So while you rightfully complain about your pay cuts and benefit cuts we at XJ are just supposed to take the BS lying down? I don't think so. So while you all take pay cuts from a really good living to a decent living, we'll take paycuts at XJ from a near poverty living to a beyond rediculous living. All because we ought to "share the pain?" Right.

I'm done discussing this with you... because obviously you'll never begin to even understand what this mess looks like from our perspective and nor do you even probably care to find out. I'd just be wasting my time.


FO
 
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What is all of this flap? I'm... uh I mean ALPA is trying to protect our Brothers. NWA is the Greatest Airline and I am the Greatest President of ALPA. Now shut your gums and pay your DUES.
 
NewCo will be sold after its organization. Along with all of its pilots to help bring NWA out of BK. That is one reason they want it as a separate co. To keep that option open. This will leaving everything where it is. XJ and 9e to fly the regional market at rock bottom prices and main line to fly trans continental and international at reduced prices. This was steelands vision before the bk 02/05 and still is. We need to stop focusing on the planes and flying and keep focused on the big picture. Their are a lot of moving parts to all of this. Keep in mind what NWA's goals are. Like in soccer, don't watch your opponent's feet, watch and play the ball. No matter witch way he goes you know where he is trying to get to.
 
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