New Delta TA 06/2015

[Flopgut]

Didn't NWA ALPA face a lawsuit or injunction over increased sick leave use about 15-20 years ago? if I remember correctly, the judge agreed with the union's point that if pilots work more, sick leave will go up. Everybody is working more these days, for a variety of reasons... Can DALALPA use that instance now in response to this attempted grab on mgmts part?

 

[PCL_128]

That argument doesn't work when everyone else's sick leave use throughout the industry is staying flat while yours is increasing 30%.

 

[Flopgut]

Sure it does. It's only staying flat temporarily. The full view needs to be considered. PBS, mergers, age 65, etc have skewed the numbers in the short term. We will all be tending ailments and making health maintenance efforts in the years to come. (It's one of the many "falling knives" we have to manage) ALPA needs to go after the 800lb gorillas and not agree to forfeit basic Constitutional [privacy] rights. Big picture: The need to use leave is going up over the coming 20 years. Not down.

 

[PCL_128]

You need to take a statistics course.

 

[jonjuan]

I never mentioned inflation-adjusted numbers, so why would I have added that? Inflation adjusted restoration is simply not achievable at this point in time (and probably never).

You wouldn't have added that as it makes your argument of best rates in history laughable. dollar for dollar, buying power is 25% greater in 2004 than today.
You like the dalpa me it seems, take a view point and then work the facts to best defend the position. "Why yes, pilots, it may be dogsh1t, but it has chunks of corn in it and if you don't eat it, you'll certainly die. Now how will your wife and kids survive? Therefore, we highly endorse that you eat it".

 

[jonjuan]

Red has never negotiated anything. He's your typical bomb thrower who stands on the sidelines and pretends that he's an expert without ever having to put up or shut up.

Just give it a few years. In 3-5 years, his beloved SWAPA will have a TA with pay rates lower than DAL, code share giveaways, and still just a 401k match.

And yet their pilots will STILL make 30% more and be home more days than the average dal pilot.

 

[jonjuan]

That argument doesn't work when everyone else's sick leave use throughout the industry is staying flat while yours is increasing 30%.

There you go again with the spin. Having a sick bank forces people to fly sick as they are saving it for later or what most do, to cash it in. $10,000 bucks says if dalpa said "Well, great. We'll just instead switch to the sick bank everyone else in the industry uses" the company would say no effing way.

 

[jonjuan]

I never mentioned inflation-adjusted numbers, so why would I have added that? Inflation adjusted restoration is simply not achievable at this point in time (and probably never).

Ok, Einstein, try this. Assume pay from 2004 was neither reduced nor increased throughout 11 years. Now the company says, "nope, sorry, no raises, even after 11 years." Now how about real reduced buying power due to inflation? A reverse time value of money, if you will? Or did you not take any classes in economics in junior college?

 

[HowardBorden]

That argument doesn't work when everyone else's sick leave use throughout the industry is staying flat while yours is increasing 30%.

The argument that does work and is clearly the reason for increased sick leave at Delta or any other legacy is an older work force. Delta will retire nearly half its pilots by 2022. That means nearly 50% of the pilot group is 58 years old or older. Obviously a work group that has a larger percentage of its members in their late 50's to mid 60's will use more sick time. Younger pilots are less susceptible to illness and injury than older ones, that is an unavoidable truth. This industry is facing the oldest workforce in its history.

You claim that everyone else's sick use throughout the industry is staying flat, but that simply isn't the case. I believe one could point to statements from nearly every management team claiming that sick leave is on the rise. As a matter of fact nearly every management group will claim that their employees use of sick time is higher than their peers if not the highest in the industry.

It simply boggles my mind that a management shill such as yourself could have ever claimed to be any sort of pilot advocate or risen to elected union office. The ALPA spin machine is pushing for a full court press on this issue.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok, Einstein, try this. Assume pay from 2004 was neither reduced nor increased throughout 11 years. Now the company says, "nope, sorry, no raises, even after 11 years." Now how about real reduced buying power due to inflation? A reverse time value of money, if you will? Or did you not take any classes in economics in junior college?

You can bitch to high heaven about inflation all you want, but the NMB simply isn't on board with inflation-adjusted restoration. Welcome to reality.