new crew rest rules

[Broke in CVG]

Be careful what you wish for folks. 3 days don't have much room for rest. Long overnights lead to more work days for the same pay. Just like minimum days off in a contract lead to fewer overall days off, for instance. (Socializing the days off from the senior lines down to the junior lines. Fewer 21 day off trips, but a lot of 14-16 day off trips, etc.)

Just pointing that out.

I'm all for rest rules, but they may carry some baggage along with them.

With our schedules?????

As a 10 year FO (displaced) bidding in the top 10% I am doing 4DT with min days off anyway. 85% of our trips are 4DT now, with less than 20 total greater than 20hrs.

Who the hell gets 14-16 days off? I haven't pulled 14+ days off in YEARS! And only one month when I was bidding #5 8 years ago in the right seat doing 7:58 1DT did I pull 19. Those days are LONG GONE! Our schedules are so unproductive that for the first time our rigs are actually paying. So bring on the long overnights, as with the TAB rig it doesn't matter how much I fly during the day - I'm going to be away for 20 days a month and paid for 20 days TAB. As long as the trips are going to be very unproductive, they might as well be very unproductive with me sitting in the hotel sleeping rather than sitting at the airport with 3-5 hr breaks between every leg.

I'M TIRED OF SCHEDULED REDUCED REST OVERNIGHTS! Out of the 8 years on reserve in the Left seat, I can honestly say that at least 30% of the flights I was fatigued AND more than once fatigued to the point of fighting to stay awake coming down the ILS. I even drove right past and missed my exit on the way home one morning..... THIS HAS TO CHANGE AND CHANGE NOW!

 

[OCP]

I'm on a very normal 3 day now that has over 10 hrs each overnight (11 one night and 1055 the other) and is credited to almost 18 hrs. Why is that so hard to do for the rest of the trips? Will they maybe have to staff the airline better? Yep.

 

[buscap]

Could someone please tell me what FAA rules or schedule induced fatigue were a factor in the Colgan accident?

I believe the answer on both counts is none.

 

[Tarzan]

Who the hell gets 14-16 days off? I haven't pulled 14+ days off in YEARS! And only one month when I was bidding #5 8 years ago in the right seat doing 7:58 1DT did I pull 19. Those days are LONG GONE!

Maybe at your company, however, I hold 16 days off and do over 90 hours of credit. All on three day trips along with a day line here and there.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

With our schedules?????

As a 10 year FO (displaced) bidding in the top 10% I am doing 4DT with min days off anyway. 85% of our trips are 4DT now, with less than 20 total greater than 20hrs.

Who the hell gets 14-16 days off? I haven't pulled 14+ days off in YEARS! And only one month when I was bidding #5 8 years ago in the right seat doing 7:58 1DT did I pull 19. Those days are LONG GONE! Our schedules are so unproductive that for the first time our rigs are actually paying. So bring on the long overnights, as with the TAB rig it doesn't matter how much I fly during the day - I'm going to be away for 20 days a month and paid for 20 days TAB. As long as the trips are going to be very unproductive, they might as well be very unproductive with me sitting in the hotel sleeping rather than sitting at the airport with 3-5 hr breaks between every leg.

I'M TIRED OF SCHEDULED REDUCED REST OVERNIGHTS! Out of the 8 years on reserve in the Left seat, I can honestly say that at least 30% of the flights I was fatigued AND more than once fatigued to the point of fighting to stay awake coming down the ILS. I even drove right past and missed my exit on the way home one morning..... THIS HAS TO CHANGE AND CHANGE NOW!

The 200 and 700 obviously have different schedules...

 

[Brody1]

Could someone please tell me what FAA rules or schedule induced fatigue were a factor in the Colgan accident?

I believe the answer on both counts is none.

Can you prove that?

 

[OCP]

Can you prove that?

Or better yet, does it matter in that one case? It has been proven in many other fatal accidents. But thanks for playing.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Can you prove that?

It is hard to "prove" anything in the world. Just because something cannot be "proven" does not mean that there isn't a correlation or significant relationship.

 

[acaTerry]

Be careful what you wish for folks. 3 days don't have much room for rest. Long overnights lead to more work days for the same pay. Just like minimum days off in a contract lead to fewer overall days off, for instance. (Socializing the days off from the senior lines down to the junior lines. Fewer 21 day off trips, but a lot of 14-16 day off trips, etc.)

Just pointing that out.

I'm all for rest rules, but they may carry some baggage along with them.

Baloney. It may make Scheduling have to be smarter. It may utilize reserve pilots more. It may even make mainline take some routes back.
Besides, do you want more dead people so you can have more days off?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

The fact is any income or QOL losses would be temporary. New CBA's would compensate for any losses, if the respective pilot groups were smart about it.

Peace.

Rekks