New ACMI Agreement Between ABX Air and DHL.

[DC8CRIVER]

FYI, Astar mgt has not asked for concessions and they have announced that they do not ever plan to do so.

However, our sky brothers in grey (ABX) have not only furloughed, but they have dropped the bar for a price cut at over $80/hour! Congrats for the deepest dive of any existing carrier! You are now almost exactly on par with ATI at $160/hr!

They will say "well we've still got a job and it's worth it - the Astar guys got furloughed" ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that ABX not only took the massive cuts, but they have more guys on the street than any DHL carrier including Astar.

Way to set the bar and take care of your fellow ABX pilots.

If it were me, I'd be ashamed...

Driver

ps - jim mcmahon, slink back into your bitter hole - you no not of what you speak and it adds nothing of value of accuracy to any of these discussions.

 

[nitefr8dog]

FYI, Astar mgt has not asked for concessions and they have announced that they do not ever plan to do so.

However, our sky brothers in grey (ABX) have not only furloughed, but they have dropped the bar for a price cut at over $80/hour! Congrats for the deepest dive of any existing carrier! You are now almost exactly on par with ATI at $160/hr!

They will say "well we've still got a job and it's worth it - the Astar guys got furloughed" ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that ABX not only took the massive cuts, but they have more guys on the street than any DHL carrier including Astar.

Way to set the bar and take care of your fellow ABX pilots.

If it were me, I'd be ashamed...

Driver

ps - jim mcmahon, slink back into your bitter hole - you no not of what you speak and it adds nothing of value of accuracy to any of these discussions.

Driver, not even close. Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...I know this is a tough concept to follow but I will try. Less freight = fewer airframes = fewer pilots. Get the facts before you spout off and sound like a bigger a$$ than you already do.

 

[DC8CRIVER]

nitefr8dog wrote: “Would not have any idea as ASTAR pilots are still using it. Astar is still operating 6-8 DC 8s out of CVG and using "your" crew room.

Actually the Astar and the ABX crewrooms at CVG were one room when Astar moved there in 2003 so you ARE in what was about half of our old room.

nitefr8dog wrote: “( I guess I could have said how do you like using our runway when ASTAR was operating out of KILN but that would have been a little childish)!”

Childish, yes. But, truth be known, we never did like the potholed runway, the thieving sort crews, or the ignorant welcome you all gave us there.

nitefr8dog wrote: “ Truth be told there is not much any of "us" like about the operation in CVG, small, no room for any expansion, poor design, late every nite do to a totally dicked up loading system...”

OK. I’ll assume you meant “due to” not “do to” ... but I digress - the sort is plenty big enough for the operation there today. There were substantially more packages being sorted prior to the move up to pigtown. There is a master plan agreed to by DHL and the CVG airport authority to expand both the sort building and the ramp to (approximately) double the size of both. The tilt tray sort system was designed and installed by Siemens and is still state-of-the-art today (not quite like the "state-of-the-art crush-it, lose-it, steal-it tractor powered hand sort system you had up in pigtown). It is the baboons that DHL trucks down from pigtown that have no idea about how to operate it and the “totally dicked up loading system” of A containers - the global standard for freight - is a far better, lighter, and more common system than the porta-lets that you all - for some God-only-knows reason - think are slicker than tobacco spit.


nitefr8dog wrote: “ Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...”

For some reason, the ABX kids seem reluctant to publish their new pay scales and work rules so facts are hard to come by. There is a “Summary of Company Proposal 9/1/09” floating around out there somewhere which is where we have been getting our numbers, so enlighten us with the official pay scales you all dropped down to and post it for all to see. The numbers from your company show FO’s making $112,000 not $145,000.

Also, thanks for your concern, but we’re not in the van by the river. Furloughed AStar pilots are still getting paid for the next six months. Not perfect, but better than your junior brothers whose backs you walked over on your way to sleeping inside with your family.

And BTW, it was Teamsters who made the decision to take it up the tailpipe, not ALPA or ASTAR or even DHL. Enjoy your new German husband. He may not be smart, but he knows how to make you do what he wants.

8

 

[nitefr8dog]

nitefr8dog wrote: “Would not have any idea as ASTAR pilots are still using it. Astar is still operating 6-8 DC 8s out of CVG and using "your" crew room.

Actually the Astar and the ABX crewrooms at CVG were one room when Astar moved there in 2003 so you ARE in what was about half of our old room.

nitefr8dog wrote: “( I guess I could have said how do you like using our runway when ASTAR was operating out of KILN but that would have been a little childish)!”

Childish, yes. But, truth be known, we never did like the potholed runway, the thieving sort crews, or the ignorant welcome you all gave us there.

nitefr8dog wrote: “ Truth be told there is not much any of "us" like about the operation in CVG, small, no room for any expansion, poor design, late every nite do to a totally dicked up loading system...”

OK. I’ll assume you meant “due to” not “do to” ... but I digress - the sort is plenty big enough for the operation there today. There were substantially more packages being sorted prior to the move up to pigtown. There is a master plan agreed to by DHL and the CVG airport authority to expand both the sort building and the ramp to (approximately) double the size of both. The tilt tray sort system was designed and installed by Siemens and is still state-of-the-art today (not quite like the "state-of-the-art crush-it, lose-it, steal-it tractor powered hand sort system you had up in pigtown). It is the baboons that DHL trucks down from pigtown that have no idea about how to operate it and the “totally dicked up loading system” of A containers - the global standard for freight - is a far better, lighter, and more common system than the porta-lets that you all - for some God-only-knows reason - think are slicker than tobacco spit.


nitefr8dog wrote: “ Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...”

For some reason, the ABX kids seem reluctant to publish their new pay scales and work rules so facts are hard to come by. There is a “Summary of Company Proposal 9/1/09” floating around out there somewhere which is where we have been getting our numbers, so enlighten us with the official pay scales you all dropped down to and post it for all to see. The numbers from your company show FO’s making $112,000 not $145,000.

Also, thanks for your concern, but we’re not in the van by the river. Furloughed AStar pilots are still getting paid for the next six months. Not perfect, but better than your junior brothers whose backs you walked over on your way to sleeping inside with your family.

And BTW, it was Teamsters who made the decision to take it up the tailpipe, not ALPA or ASTAR or even DHL. Enjoy your new German husband. He may not be smart, but he knows how to make you do what he wants.

8

I guess you meant "crew rooms" not "crewrooms".... but I digress-it is still too small at twice its size. Late because of Saber which is ridiculous if any change pops up you have to Control Central print new paper work!....you guessed it.... DELAY. And this state of the art loading system is only used by who.... again you guessed it. DHL/ASTAR. (I am talking about Saber not A containers, you would think ASTAR invented A containers WTFO).

As far as pay goes Captains pay is 161K...FO pay is 113K. I said making 130K to 145K as an FO was not something I was ashamed of. (now follow along , I will go slow) My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.

Anyway you package it and try to sell it, you signed the deal and got screwed! The old saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is just never goes out of style.

 

[Clipperskip]

My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.


Slight error...Try 68 hours gaurantee per month now not 65. We gave that away too!

 

[Clipperskip]

My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.QUOTE]


Slight error. Our monthly gaurantee in now 68 hours and not 65. Another way we reduced our hour rates.

 

[nitefr8dog]

My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.QUOTE]


Slight error. Our monthly gaurantee in now 68 hours and not 65. Another way we reduced our hour rates.

Thanks but... the discussion was where I will be at the end of the year. Without International going forward, 65 hrs thru Apr 1, 68 per mo. after Apr 1 the numbers stand!

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Anyway you package it and try to sell it, you signed the deal and got screwed! The old saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is just never goes out of style.

Lets see just how bad we at Astar got screwed...

We furloughed 350.
You furloughed 450.

We went from 37 planes to 8.
You went from 139 planes to 13.

We have a contract with DHL that goes to 2019.
You have a contract with DHL that goes to 2015 with a two year extension "right at DHL's sole option".

We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

We stood up to DHL and our wages are intact.
You bent over and took it up the tailpipe starting the ATSG Race-To-The-Bottom.

Yep. Looks like we are the ones that got screwed. Just not as bad as you all did.

8

 

[FreightBumper]

Look at the percentages. ABX and ASTAR are about even in regards to pilots lost and airplanes parked. You can't see the forest for the trees. A lot of good folks lost good jobs and have families that are suffering. Trash talking about runways and sorters keeps one from having any true worthwhile discussion.

 

[Ammo captain]

ATI hasn't received any ABX aircraft, except one they did a tail swap for, and that was for ABX's benefit. Just to keep the record straight in the ongoing ABX/Astar feud.

 

[b707guy]

We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

Can't argue any of your other points, but give me a tail number that ATI operates (besides 748AX, a non-ETOPS bird which we 'traded' from ABX for one of our ETOPS-capable birds) that ABX has operated or should be operating. (edit: oops, sorry Ammo - didn't scroll down to the bottom before responding to 8's post...)

 

[nitefr8dog]

Lets see just how bad we at Astar got screwed...

We furloughed 350.
You furloughed 450.

We went from 37 planes to 8.
You went from 139 planes to 13.

We have a contract with DHL that goes to 2019.
You have a contract with DHL that goes to 2015 with a two year extension "right at DHL's sole option".

We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

We stood up to DHL and our wages are intact.
You bent over and took it up the tailpipe starting the ATSG Race-To-The-Bottom.

Yep. Looks like we are the ones that got screwed. Just not as bad as you all did.

8

So... ASTAR furloughed 75% of it's pilots, ABX furloughed 65%. ABX started with 110 aircraft when DHL made its MAY 28th announcement, we now OWN 38 and operate 23, 15 for DHL (two spares) 1 for Aeromex in LAX (on 4-8-10 they formally asked for 1 additional aircraft for a new flight to Chile )..... 5 in MIA, and 2 currently being operated for TNT in Europe.

ABX owns all 38 aircraft and structures aircraft leases thru CAM Leasing. ( the remaining 15 aircraft are either in mod or scheduled for mod).

DRIVER, Where do you get your info? You need to research the topic you are hijacking/flaming and stop getting your info from third graders you are driving around on the school bus!

P.S. as previously stated the only aircraft ATI has with an AX on the tail was a 1 for 1 trade for 315AA which is an ETOPS aircraft being used on the TNT flight everyday out of JFK.

 

[DC8CRIVER]

So... ASTAR furloughed 75% of it's pilots, ABX furloughed 65%. ABX started with 110 aircraft when DHL made its MAY 28th announcement, we now OWN 38 and operate 23, 15 for DHL (two spares) 1 for Aeromex in LAX (on 4-8-10 they formally asked for 1 additional aircraft for a new flight to Chile )..... 5 in MIA, and 2 currently being operated for TNT in Europe.

ABX owns all 38 aircraft and structures aircraft leases thru CAM Leasing. ( the remaining 15 aircraft are either in mod or scheduled for mod).

DRIVER, Where do you get your info? You need to research the topic you are hijacking/flaming and stop getting your info from third graders you are driving around on the school bus!

P.S. as previously stated the only aircraft ATI has with an AX on the tail was a 1 for 1 trade for 315AA which is an ETOPS aircraft being used on the TNT flight everyday out of JFK.

Well now, let's see how much you now about your company.

FAA records indicate (and data is updated each Federal Working Day at midnight) that:

ABX owns 22 767's.
CAM owns 9 767's including 315AA, 312AA, 712AX, 741AX, 748AX, 752AX, 761AX, 769AX, 775AX.

Any of those tail numbers sound familiar? Enjoy them while they last. Good news is, of course, you'll see them again when you weasel your way onto the ATI seniority list.

8

 

[nitefr8dog]

Well now, let's see how much you now about your company.

FAA records indicate (and data is updated each Federal Working Day at midnight) that:

ABX owns 22 767's.
CAM owns 9 767's including 315AA, 312AA, 712AX, 741AX, 748AX, 752AX, 761AX, 769AX, 775AX.

Any of those tail numbers sound familiar? Enjoy them while they last. Good news is, of course, you'll see them again when you weasel your way onto the ATI seniority list.

8

Driver your previous post said ABX had 13 aircraft, now you say we have 22 which is it. For tax purposes CAM leases the aircraft ABX owns. Even the aircraft ABX owns will be leased thru CAM to DHL. This provides a huge tax advantage. Big difference in who the aircraft is registered too and who owns the aircraft. 38 aircraft by serial number belong to ABX air. Additional aircraft are also on the operating certificate that ABX flies but not owned by ABX. 312AA now and 315AA shortly. The 38 aircraft are tied to ABX and as assets to the Pilot pension. ABX agreed in the new contract only ABX pilots would fly these aircraft ( of the companies under the ATSG umbrella) unless an agreement to swap aircraft for another aircraft was agreed to. (748AX/312AA)

Dry leases thru CAM for aircraft ABX/ATSG are not using are a different story. ( I think ATI owns 5-6 767s and is flying 2?) but are done thru an agreement with 1224, (for the ABX airplanes)...

Now what else would you like to discuss?

 

[FreightBumper]

Driver your previous post said ABX had 13 aircraft, now you say we have 22 which is it. For tax purposes CAM leases the aircraft ABX owns. Even the aircraft ABX owns will be leased thru CAM to DHL. This provides a huge tax advantage. Big difference in who the aircraft is registered too and who owns the aircraft. 38 aircraft by serial number belong to ABX air. Additional aircraft are also on the operating certificate that ABX flies but not owned by ABX. 312AA now and 315AA shortly. The 38 aircraft are tied to ABX and as assets to the Pilot pension. ABX agreed in the new contract only ABX pilots would fly these aircraft ( of the companies under the ATSG umbrella) unless an agreement to swap aircraft for another aircraft was agreed to. (748AX/312AA)

Dry leases thru CAM for aircraft ABX/ATSG are not using are a different story. ( I think ATI owns 5-6 767s and is flying 2?) but are done thru an agreement with 1224, (for the ABX airplanes)...

Now what else would you like to discuss?

You know the old saying" Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." All his ranting dies off pretty quick when you call him on his bs info.