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New ACMI Agreement Between ABX Air and DHL.

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ABXDC9

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Posts
12
AIR TRANSPORT SERVICES GROUP ANNOUNCES NEW LONG-TERM AIRCRAFT AND OPERATING AGREEMENTS WITH DHL
WILMINGTON, OH - March 30, 2010 – Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:ATSG) today announced the execution of new long-term agreements under which the subsidiaries of ATSG will continue providing aircraft and operating support to the U.S. portion of DHL’s international logistics network.

The principal operating agreements are:
  • A new five-year Air Transportation Services Agreement between its subsidiary, ABX Air, and DHL, which specifies the terms under which ABX will continue providing 767 aircraft operating support to the U.S. portion of DHL’s international logistics network on a primarily fixed-price, rather than cost-plus basis. The agreement covers Crew, aircraft Maintenance and Insurance (CMI) services necessary to initially operate thirteen scheduled Boeing 767 aircraft in DHL’s domestic cargo network through March 2015, with an option for the parties to extend the agreement through March 2020.
  • Seven-year lease agreements between DHL and Cargo Aircraft Management (CAM), ATSG’s aircraft leasing subsidiary, covering thirteen Boeing 767 freighter aircraft, including four aircraft on which DHL held an option to lease under an agreement struck in June 2009. Seven of the thirteen leases are anticipated to become effective in April 2010, with all thirteen targeted to be in place by April 2011, predicated on the conversion schedule for standard 767 freighter door modifications currently underway. ABX Air will provide interim 767 freighter aircraft under similar economic terms as required by DHL until such time as all freighter door modifications are completed.
ABX Air and DHL also entered into an agreement terminating their current ACMI Agreement, which had been in place since August 15, 2003, and was set to expire August 15, 2010. The termination agreement covers the settlement and release of all residual liabilities and commitments related to the ACMI Agreement and former Hub and Line-haul Services Agreement, as well as the Severance and Retention Agreement between the parties.
Key features of these agreements, as well as other significant items agreed between the parties, are summarized below.

CMI Agreement:
  • Five year CMI agreement beginning March 31, 2010 with a two year extension right at DHL’s sole option and up to a five-year extension option subject to mutual agreement
  • Provides for ABX Air to be the exclusive operator for up to thirteen Boeing 767-200 series aircraft operated in DHL’s U.S. domestic air network
  • Firm pricing for 2010 with confirmed annual escalations through 2012; escalations beyond 2012 based on the consumer price index; flight crew costs escalated based on provisions of ABX Air’s labor agreement with its pilots’ union
  • Significant incentive potential based upon monthly on-time aircraft performance above target levels, as adjusted for controllable delays; similar disincentive potential for service results below target levels
  • Agreed pricing adjustments for flight crew and other costs resulting from an increase or decrease in the number of scheduled aircraft
  • DHL to provide fuel at its expense and will reimburse ABX Air for customary pass-through charges
  • ABX Air to provide spare aircraft support
  • Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services, Inc., an ATSG subsidiary, to provide airframe heavy maintenance services for the thirteen aircraft from its maintenance facility in Wilmington, Ohio, for a minimum of three years
  • Remaining $31.0 million DHL Note to be amortized on a monthly basis so as to be extinguished at the end of the initial five year term, with no cash payment requirement from ABX Air
  • Payment by DHL to ABX Air of a material termination fee in the event DHL elects to terminate for convenience (amount reduces during the five year term), with no option to terminate during the first year
  • Payment by ABX Air to DHL of a material termination fee in the event DHL terminates the CMI agreement due to an ABX Air event of default (amount reduces during the five-year term)
  • DHL’s obligations under the CMI are guaranteed by Deutsche Post AG, DHL’s parent
Lease Agreement:
  • Initially, thirteen 767 freighter aircraft, each for a term of seven years; seven commencing on or about April 1, 2010, with the other six anticipated to be in place by April 2011
  • ABX Air to provide interim 767 freighter aircraft to DHL under similar economic terms until such time as modifications for all thirteen aircraft are completed
  • Leases are guaranteed by Deutsche Post AG, DHL’s parent
  • Four of the thirteen leases are for Boeing 767 aircraft for which DHL held lease options pursuant to a June 2009 agreement
  • DHL is responsible for the cost of routine airframe heavy maintenance during the term of the lease
Significant Items Resolved through Termination Agreement:
  • DHL agreed to pay ABX Air $31.1 million in settlement of open DC-9 and Boeing 767 freighter aircraft put values
  • Pursuant to a Letter Agreement between ABX Air and DHL signed in March 2009, ABX agreed to pay $15.0 million toward the outstanding DHL Note balance, thereby reducing the remaining balance outstanding to $31.0 million
  • DHL agreed to pay ABX Air an additional $11.2 million for reimbursement of accrued vacation paid out to ABX employees adversely impacted by DHL’s restructuring in the United States. ABX Air agreed to seek no additional reimbursement
Joe Hete, ATSG President and CEO, said, "These new agreements clearly evidence the continuing long-term relationship between ABX Air and DHL and address the significant remaining questions relating to the impact of DHL’s U.S. restructuring on ABX Air. Exiting the cost-plus structure of the ACMI Agreement in favor of the CMI Agreement and aircraft leases provides us an opportunity to achieve appropriate market returns for our assets for years forward, and our customer the opportunity to lock in flexibility and excellent service at a predictable price. We are very pleased to continue to support DHL as it provides its customers premium service for their international freight transiting the United States."
Ken Allen, Chief Executive Officer of DHL Express and member of the Management Board of the world’s largest logistics company, Deutsche Post World Net, added, "We have a high regard for the service capability of ABX Air and the 767 freighter aircraft it operates on our behalf in the U.S. network, and are pleased to continue to partner with them under the new CMI arrangement."
Hete concluded, "After months of intensive negotiations, the agreements we are announcing today truly reflect a new chapter for ABX Air. These agreements, coupled with the five-year collective bargaining agreement recently executed with its flight crews, position ABX Air to be a major player in the global ACMI market for years to come. Having emerged from the events of the past year with a stronger balance sheet, greater long-term security and diversity of cash flows, and renewed focus on serving our customers, I believe the ATSG family of companies is well positioned to generate attractive returns for its shareholders and excellent service to its customers in 2010 and beyond."
 
New ACMI Agreement Between ABX Air and DHL.
AIR TRANSPORT SERVICES GROUP?????

So is this mess all under one pilot list or do they whipsaw each other with the ultimate master as the winner?.........
 
Congratulations guys. Our DHL Airways crew room is nice isn't it? My locker was 143. Enjoy it while it lasts. There's always somebody cheaper, faster, and willing to go even lower.
 
Congratulations guys. Our DHL Airways crew room is nice isn't it? My locker was 143. Enjoy it while it lasts. There's always somebody cheaper, faster, and willing to go even lower.
How are they cheaper? That "other board" shows their 12-year Captains @ $239/hr, Astar 15-year @ $216/hr.
 
New ACMI Agreement Between ABX Air and DHL.
AIR TRANSPORT SERVICES GROUP?????

So is this mess all under one pilot list or do they whipsaw each other with the ultimate master as the winner?.........

The mess is not under one list the MEC at the other two carriers did not want to discuss a single list with 1224. To try to prevent whipsawing the pilot groups, 1224 was able to get a side letter that requires any new hires at either of the sister companies under the ATSG umbrella would have to hire from furloughed ABX pilots. The ABX pilots would also get credit for years of service towards pay and benefits. Look for the other thread about hiring at ATI it is all in there.
 
How are they cheaper? That "other board" shows their 12-year Captains @ $239/hr, Astar 15-year @ $216/hr.

Those are ABX's old rates. The new concessionary rate (the 12 yr scale) has been bantered about here and on other boards unofficially.

If you're playing stupid, shame on you. If you have been cruising the boards with your eyes closed, then I suggest you make use of the search button.
 
Congratulations guys. Our DHL Airways crew room is nice isn't it? My locker was 143. Enjoy it while it lasts. There's always somebody cheaper, faster, and willing to go even lower.

Would not have any idea as ASTAR pilots are still using it. Astar is still operating 6-8 DC 8s out of CVG and using "your" crew room. ( I guess I could have said how do you like using our runway when ASTAR was operating out of KILN but that would have been a little childish)! Truth be told there is not much any of "us" like about the operation in CVG, small, no room for any expansion, poor design, late every nite do to a totally dicked up loading system...the list goes on and on.
 
Those are ABX's old rates. The new concessionary rate (the 12 yr scale) has been bantered about here and on other boards unofficially.

If you're playing stupid, shame on you. If you have been cruising the boards with your eyes closed, then I suggest you make use of the search button.

But still the highest paid ACMI carrier out there today operating more than 8 aircraft. And higher than most Legacy carriers!
 
So ABX continues to fly 13 planes for DHL and DHL gets the concessionary rates (whatever they are). Not a great deal but not too bad either under the circumstances.

Im not trying to stir the pot. Im just curious. Are the ABX pilots happy, unhappy, or apathetic about this?
 
And for what its worth, the other board is wrong. The 15 year Astar captain rates are $229.03/hour. Pretty juicy for the few guys lucky enough to hold that position.
 
So ABX continues to fly 13 planes for DHL and DHL gets the concessionary rates (whatever they are). Not a great deal but not too bad either under the circumstances.

Im not trying to stir the pot. Im just curious. Are the ABX pilots happy, unhappy, or apathetic about this?

I am thinking realistic might be a better word. Tough finding a job these days...would I rather have nothing to do with DHL after they bought us, then ruined the Airborne Express business that alot of us spent the major part of our career helping to build yes. But 150K plus benefits are tough to beat. Plus the 767 is a hoot to fly and some great layovers.
 
Those are ABX's old rates. The new concessionary rate (the 12 yr scale) has been bantered about here and on other boards unofficially.

If you're playing stupid, shame on you. If you have been cruising the boards with your eyes closed, then I suggest you make use of the search button.
It's not that big a deal to me, I don't have a dog in ABX's fight. APC is usually pretty accurate, sometimes they're not. I recall seeing something about a $160+/hr rate, didn't know it had been implemented.

Since we're talking about "someone always willing to go lower" what's you're new rate for flying a DC-8 vs your old one? Are you "lowering the bar" or just doing what you need to do to feed your family?

Astar's present $229/hr rate has no bearing on anything this side of MARS. I suspect that within the next few months, Astar management will ask those pilots remaining on the property for deep concessions, to "bring Astar's total crew costs inline with those of our competitors" That's when we'll start to see where "the bar" is really at.
 
Since we're talking about "someone always willing to go lower" what's you're new rate for flying a DC-8 vs your old one? Are you "lowering the bar" or just doing what you need to do to feed your family?


Apples to oranges A$$WIPE. I won't even dignify that question with a proper answer.

Except for one other person who's handle sounds like a children's cereal, I try really hard not to be offensive to anyone on this board. But for you and her, I will gladly make the exception.

You were a leach then and a poser now.

IGNORED
 
FAJ,

Pay no attention to "Whistle britches", aka Jim M.. He will never see the inside of a cockpit of anything ever again, which is a real service to anyone who actually holds a pilot certificate.

Jim isn't aware of the real payscales in the airline industry, but you can rest assured he can tell you what it cost to hang drywall. :)
 
FYI, Astar mgt has not asked for concessions and they have announced that they do not ever plan to do so.

However, our sky brothers in grey (ABX) have not only furloughed, but they have dropped the bar for a price cut at over $80/hour! Congrats for the deepest dive of any existing carrier! You are now almost exactly on par with ATI at $160/hr!

They will say "well we've still got a job and it's worth it - the Astar guys got furloughed" ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that ABX not only took the massive cuts, but they have more guys on the street than any DHL carrier including Astar.

Way to set the bar and take care of your fellow ABX pilots.

If it were me, I'd be ashamed...

Driver

ps - jim mcmahon, slink back into your bitter hole - you no not of what you speak and it adds nothing of value of accuracy to any of these discussions.
 
FYI, Astar mgt has not asked for concessions and they have announced that they do not ever plan to do so.

However, our sky brothers in grey (ABX) have not only furloughed, but they have dropped the bar for a price cut at over $80/hour! Congrats for the deepest dive of any existing carrier! You are now almost exactly on par with ATI at $160/hr!

They will say "well we've still got a job and it's worth it - the Astar guys got furloughed" ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that ABX not only took the massive cuts, but they have more guys on the street than any DHL carrier including Astar.

Way to set the bar and take care of your fellow ABX pilots.

If it were me, I'd be ashamed...

Driver

ps - jim mcmahon, slink back into your bitter hole - you no not of what you speak and it adds nothing of value of accuracy to any of these discussions.

Driver, not even close. Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...I know this is a tough concept to follow but I will try. Less freight = fewer airframes = fewer pilots. Get the facts before you spout off and sound like a bigger a$$ than you already do.
 
nitefr8dog wrote: “Would not have any idea as ASTAR pilots are still using it. Astar is still operating 6-8 DC 8s out of CVG and using "your" crew room.

Actually the Astar and the ABX crewrooms at CVG were one room when Astar moved there in 2003 so you ARE in what was about half of our old room.

nitefr8dog wrote: “( I guess I could have said how do you like using our runway when ASTAR was operating out of KILN but that would have been a little childish)!”

Childish, yes. But, truth be known, we never did like the potholed runway, the thieving sort crews, or the ignorant welcome you all gave us there.

nitefr8dog wrote: “ Truth be told there is not much any of "us" like about the operation in CVG, small, no room for any expansion, poor design, late every nite do to a totally dicked up loading system...”

OK. I’ll assume you meant “due to” not “do to” ... but I digress - the sort is plenty big enough for the operation there today. There were substantially more packages being sorted prior to the move up to pigtown. There is a master plan agreed to by DHL and the CVG airport authority to expand both the sort building and the ramp to (approximately) double the size of both. The tilt tray sort system was designed and installed by Siemens and is still state-of-the-art today (not quite like the "state-of-the-art crush-it, lose-it, steal-it tractor powered hand sort system you had up in pigtown). It is the baboons that DHL trucks down from pigtown that have no idea about how to operate it and the “totally dicked up loading system” of A containers - the global standard for freight - is a far better, lighter, and more common system than the porta-lets that you all - for some God-only-knows reason - think are slicker than tobacco spit.


nitefr8dog wrote: “ Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...”

For some reason, the ABX kids seem reluctant to publish their new pay scales and work rules so facts are hard to come by. There is a “Summary of Company Proposal 9/1/09” floating around out there somewhere which is where we have been getting our numbers, so enlighten us with the official pay scales you all dropped down to and post it for all to see. The numbers from your company show FO’s making $112,000 not $145,000.

Also, thanks for your concern, but we’re not in the van by the river. Furloughed AStar pilots are still getting paid for the next six months. Not perfect, but better than your junior brothers whose backs you walked over on your way to sleeping inside with your family.

And BTW, it was Teamsters who made the decision to take it up the tailpipe, not ALPA or ASTAR or even DHL. Enjoy your new German husband. He may not be smart, but he knows how to make you do what he wants.

8
 
nitefr8dog wrote: “Would not have any idea as ASTAR pilots are still using it. Astar is still operating 6-8 DC 8s out of CVG and using "your" crew room.

Actually the Astar and the ABX crewrooms at CVG were one room when Astar moved there in 2003 so you ARE in what was about half of our old room.

nitefr8dog wrote: “( I guess I could have said how do you like using our runway when ASTAR was operating out of KILN but that would have been a little childish)!”

Childish, yes. But, truth be known, we never did like the potholed runway, the thieving sort crews, or the ignorant welcome you all gave us there.

nitefr8dog wrote: “ Truth be told there is not much any of "us" like about the operation in CVG, small, no room for any expansion, poor design, late every nite do to a totally dicked up loading system...”

OK. I’ll assume you meant “due to” not “do to” ... but I digress - the sort is plenty big enough for the operation there today. There were substantially more packages being sorted prior to the move up to pigtown. There is a master plan agreed to by DHL and the CVG airport authority to expand both the sort building and the ramp to (approximately) double the size of both. The tilt tray sort system was designed and installed by Siemens and is still state-of-the-art today (not quite like the "state-of-the-art crush-it, lose-it, steal-it tractor powered hand sort system you had up in pigtown). It is the baboons that DHL trucks down from pigtown that have no idea about how to operate it and the “totally dicked up loading system” of A containers - the global standard for freight - is a far better, lighter, and more common system than the porta-lets that you all - for some God-only-knows reason - think are slicker than tobacco spit.


nitefr8dog wrote: “ Captains at 161k per year, works out to 17% not 35%. Ashamed of 130-145k as an FO? My family likes sleeping inside under a roof, yours might enjoy sleeping in a van by the river...when it gets cold tell them at least we did not take a pay cut! DHL made the decision to dump US flying NOT ABX/Teamsters,...”

For some reason, the ABX kids seem reluctant to publish their new pay scales and work rules so facts are hard to come by. There is a “Summary of Company Proposal 9/1/09” floating around out there somewhere which is where we have been getting our numbers, so enlighten us with the official pay scales you all dropped down to and post it for all to see. The numbers from your company show FO’s making $112,000 not $145,000.

Also, thanks for your concern, but we’re not in the van by the river. Furloughed AStar pilots are still getting paid for the next six months. Not perfect, but better than your junior brothers whose backs you walked over on your way to sleeping inside with your family.

And BTW, it was Teamsters who made the decision to take it up the tailpipe, not ALPA or ASTAR or even DHL. Enjoy your new German husband. He may not be smart, but he knows how to make you do what he wants.

8

I guess you meant "crew rooms" not "crewrooms".... but I digress-it is still too small at twice its size. Late because of Saber which is ridiculous if any change pops up you have to Control Central print new paper work!....you guessed it.... DELAY. And this state of the art loading system is only used by who.... again you guessed it. DHL/ASTAR. (I am talking about Saber not A containers, you would think ASTAR invented A containers WTFO).

As far as pay goes Captains pay is 161K...FO pay is 113K. I said making 130K to 145K as an FO was not something I was ashamed of. (now follow along , I will go slow) My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.

Anyway you package it and try to sell it, you signed the deal and got screwed! The old saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is just never goes out of style.
 
My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.


Slight error...Try 68 hours gaurantee per month now not 65. We gave that away too!
 
My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.QUOTE]


Slight error. Our monthly gaurantee in now 68 hours and not 65. Another way we reduced our hour rates.
 
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My base is 113K with International override and lines with more than 65 hours pay guaranty and credit for deadheads etc, I will actually be on the north side of 145K.QUOTE]


Slight error. Our monthly gaurantee in now 68 hours and not 65. Another way we reduced our hour rates.

Thanks but... the discussion was where I will be at the end of the year. Without International going forward, 65 hrs thru Apr 1, 68 per mo. after Apr 1 the numbers stand!
 
Anyway you package it and try to sell it, you signed the deal and got screwed! The old saying if it sounds to good to be true it probably is just never goes out of style.

Lets see just how bad we at Astar got screwed...

We furloughed 350.
You furloughed 450.

We went from 37 planes to 8.
You went from 139 planes to 13.

We have a contract with DHL that goes to 2019.
You have a contract with DHL that goes to 2015 with a two year extension "right at DHL's sole option".

We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

We stood up to DHL and our wages are intact.
You bent over and took it up the tailpipe starting the ATSG Race-To-The-Bottom.

Yep. Looks like we are the ones that got screwed. Just not as bad as you all did.

8
 
Look at the percentages. ABX and ASTAR are about even in regards to pilots lost and airplanes parked. You can't see the forest for the trees. A lot of good folks lost good jobs and have families that are suffering. Trash talking about runways and sorters keeps one from having any true worthwhile discussion.
 
ATI hasn't received any ABX aircraft, except one they did a tail swap for, and that was for ABX's benefit. Just to keep the record straight in the ongoing ABX/Astar feud.
 
We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

Can't argue any of your other points, but give me a tail number that ATI operates (besides 748AX, a non-ETOPS bird which we 'traded' from ABX for one of our ETOPS-capable birds) that ABX has operated or should be operating. (edit: oops, sorry Ammo - didn't scroll down to the bottom before responding to 8's post...)
 
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Lets see just how bad we at Astar got screwed...

We furloughed 350.
You furloughed 450.

We went from 37 planes to 8.
You went from 139 planes to 13.

We have a contract with DHL that goes to 2019.
You have a contract with DHL that goes to 2015 with a two year extension "right at DHL's sole option".

We own our planes.
Your planes are owned by ATSG and have been going to ATI.

We stood up to DHL and our wages are intact.
You bent over and took it up the tailpipe starting the ATSG Race-To-The-Bottom.

Yep. Looks like we are the ones that got screwed. Just not as bad as you all did.

8

So... ASTAR furloughed 75% of it's pilots, ABX furloughed 65%. ABX started with 110 aircraft when DHL made its MAY 28th announcement, we now OWN 38 and operate 23, 15 for DHL (two spares) 1 for Aeromex in LAX (on 4-8-10 they formally asked for 1 additional aircraft for a new flight to Chile )..... 5 in MIA, and 2 currently being operated for TNT in Europe.

ABX owns all 38 aircraft and structures aircraft leases thru CAM Leasing. ( the remaining 15 aircraft are either in mod or scheduled for mod).

DRIVER, Where do you get your info? You need to research the topic you are hijacking/flaming and stop getting your info from third graders you are driving around on the school bus!

P.S. as previously stated the only aircraft ATI has with an AX on the tail was a 1 for 1 trade for 315AA which is an ETOPS aircraft being used on the TNT flight everyday out of JFK.
 
So... ASTAR furloughed 75% of it's pilots, ABX furloughed 65%. ABX started with 110 aircraft when DHL made its MAY 28th announcement, we now OWN 38 and operate 23, 15 for DHL (two spares) 1 for Aeromex in LAX (on 4-8-10 they formally asked for 1 additional aircraft for a new flight to Chile )..... 5 in MIA, and 2 currently being operated for TNT in Europe.

ABX owns all 38 aircraft and structures aircraft leases thru CAM Leasing. ( the remaining 15 aircraft are either in mod or scheduled for mod).

DRIVER, Where do you get your info? You need to research the topic you are hijacking/flaming and stop getting your info from third graders you are driving around on the school bus!

P.S. as previously stated the only aircraft ATI has with an AX on the tail was a 1 for 1 trade for 315AA which is an ETOPS aircraft being used on the TNT flight everyday out of JFK.

Well now, let's see how much you now about your company.

FAA records indicate (and data is updated each Federal Working Day at midnight) that:

ABX owns 22 767's.
CAM owns 9 767's including 315AA, 312AA, 712AX, 741AX, 748AX, 752AX, 761AX, 769AX, 775AX.

Any of those tail numbers sound familiar? Enjoy them while they last. Good news is, of course, you'll see them again when you weasel your way onto the ATI seniority list.

8
 
Well now, let's see how much you now about your company.

FAA records indicate (and data is updated each Federal Working Day at midnight) that:

ABX owns 22 767's.
CAM owns 9 767's including 315AA, 312AA, 712AX, 741AX, 748AX, 752AX, 761AX, 769AX, 775AX.

Any of those tail numbers sound familiar? Enjoy them while they last. Good news is, of course, you'll see them again when you weasel your way onto the ATI seniority list.

8
Driver your previous post said ABX had 13 aircraft, now you say we have 22 which is it. For tax purposes CAM leases the aircraft ABX owns. Even the aircraft ABX owns will be leased thru CAM to DHL. This provides a huge tax advantage. Big difference in who the aircraft is registered too and who owns the aircraft. 38 aircraft by serial number belong to ABX air. Additional aircraft are also on the operating certificate that ABX flies but not owned by ABX. 312AA now and 315AA shortly. The 38 aircraft are tied to ABX and as assets to the Pilot pension. ABX agreed in the new contract only ABX pilots would fly these aircraft ( of the companies under the ATSG umbrella) unless an agreement to swap aircraft for another aircraft was agreed to. (748AX/312AA)

Dry leases thru CAM for aircraft ABX/ATSG are not using are a different story. ( I think ATI owns 5-6 767s and is flying 2?) but are done thru an agreement with 1224, (for the ABX airplanes)...

Now what else would you like to discuss?
 
Driver your previous post said ABX had 13 aircraft, now you say we have 22 which is it. For tax purposes CAM leases the aircraft ABX owns. Even the aircraft ABX owns will be leased thru CAM to DHL. This provides a huge tax advantage. Big difference in who the aircraft is registered too and who owns the aircraft. 38 aircraft by serial number belong to ABX air. Additional aircraft are also on the operating certificate that ABX flies but not owned by ABX. 312AA now and 315AA shortly. The 38 aircraft are tied to ABX and as assets to the Pilot pension. ABX agreed in the new contract only ABX pilots would fly these aircraft ( of the companies under the ATSG umbrella) unless an agreement to swap aircraft for another aircraft was agreed to. (748AX/312AA)

Dry leases thru CAM for aircraft ABX/ATSG are not using are a different story. ( I think ATI owns 5-6 767s and is flying 2?) but are done thru an agreement with 1224, (for the ABX airplanes)...

Now what else would you like to discuss?
You know the old saying" Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." All his ranting dies off pretty quick when you call him on his bs info.
 

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