NetJets DX Ops 91K Q's

[rvsm410]

Hey just wondering if we have any ADX folks here, I have a few questions regarding 91K. PLease email direct, [email protected]

thanks in advance...

 

[rvsm410]

Ok Not takers yet...

Just wanted to see if we had any info on ground job hirings, like customer service, ADX, Weather dept, etc.....

I understand some interviews have been going on recently, just looking for some info, please Pvt [email protected]

thanks

 

[dsptchrnja]

We have hired 7 new dispatchers and hiring 5 more - many of which are replacements. There are always "entry-level" jobs to be had working in the flight center in Owner Services and Crew Services.

 

[Lrjet55]

I will make no secret of my dislike of NJA scheduling because they are in cahoots with management and running this place in the ground.


The bright spark has been with the new hire schedulers running the Hawkers. They have been efficient and precise and have actually asked us our opinion on things from time to time.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Glad to hear about the Hawker Schedulers.

I have worked in the flight center for 7 years (never as a scheduler) and have never heard of a single incident (except for one that was found to be a false allegation after an ivestigation) where a scheduler made a decision based on anything other than the owner's best interest. That's what they are paid to do - very simple - find a plane and a crew to cover the reservation. The logistical nightmare is trying to do this with a fleet that is in constant repair - crews that are in constant flux - and owners that schedule and cancel trips at will - on top keeping it all within operating rules and regulations.

With 91K this got even harder - they have to now give show times for the next duty day - or next tour - when they shut them down for the day. They have crews show a week from now for a trip that hasn't even been booked yet! The increasing trend is that owners are booking trips about 72 hours before departure.

So I understand that crews are naturally going to feel like they get the short end of the stick when they show 4 AM in the morning and there is nothing for them to do until noon either becasue the trip was canceled or scheduling had to make change in the best interest of serving all the owners (the "big picture" theory comes to play). It doesn't do scheduling any favors to pi$$ off crews. But their decisions are to serve the owners best interests first and crews second - but never with malicious intent toward crews - that is absurd.

I'm not unaware of how hard our crews work and the harsh reality of the demands from shcheduling - I see it every day. But realize there has never been a day in the history of NJA that went according the the planned schedule. Let's just say if it did, EVERYONE'S life would be much easier.

Saying they are running the place in the ground seems rather harsh - do you have an example of how they do this?

Stay safe out there...

 

[Diesel]

I'll say it. SCHEDULERS ARE RUNNING THIS PLACE INTO THE GROUND.

There are too many examples to list. Scheduling doesn't operate within any rules and regulations. We call the BS on half their "scheduling" plans.

But oh yeah we don't see the big picture.

I'm just going to go punch a wall.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Still waiting for an example... it's one thing to make allegations and pass it off as God's own truth. It's quite another to cite an example and trace it back to the source.

How do you know there wasn't a reasonable explanation?

What would motivate a scheduler to "run the place into the ground"? Wouldn't that be rather masochistic?

Have you ever spent just a couple of hours sitting with a scheduler and watching him do his work and seeing what he has to manage? Do this and then tell me what you would do differently...

Don't get me wrong - I don't see this operation through rose colored glasses. I have found scheduling mistakes myself. But there is a huge difference between making a mistake and alleging that they are doing something spiteful. Which assumption are YOU making?

By the way, the last time I saw someone punch a hole in the wall, it was a scheduler in the flight center. Kind of ironic for me to see both sides of the fence.

 

[AirBear8]

Here's an example....a good friend of mine is about 2/3 done with IOE on the Hawker 800 at NJA. He had a 4 day tour on his schedule and was told by scheduling to hang out at the FBO at his gateway for 14 hours/day apparantly so just in case a IOE Check Airman happened to come along he could go fly. He said "sure, I'll be there (NOT)" and hung up. Luckily he can be at the FBO in 30 minutes if by some miracle a Check Airman did show up. Totally stupid for him to go to the FBO unless they are halfway certain he'll have a Check Airman and a plane to fly.

AirBear

 

[dsptchrnja]

I fail to see how this can run a company into the ground.

Let's just assume everything you said is exactly accurate and there is no more to the story than that. You have given me an example of how your friend didn't even ask the scheduler if he could stand-by at his home which was only 30 minutes away. What was he thinking? Your friend apparently assumed he was standing by only because a Check Airman might show up - bad assumption. There is a miriad of reasons why someone might be held on during his duty day. It is highly unlikely he actually sat there for the entire 14 hours or that it was even the scheduler's intent. But let's say he did. What legal, unethical, immoral, unfair rule did the company violate? What promise did they break?

Listen, this isn't my first day here. Scheduling has to have a good reason to keep a crew standing by at an FBO - they don't do it because they could care less about your friend or because they don't like him - it just doesn't get that personal. They are flexible in letting crews stand-by at the hotel (this went into effect last month), or home, in this case, or going on 2 hour lunches if they want.

What gets me is that your opinion of what "runs a company into the ground" has everything to do with the pilot's work-life. This example in no way affected one owner that day - even if he got so upset he quit - it wouldn't affect a paying customer - the company would survive just fine.

So when you say scheduling is running the company into the ground apparantly you are really saying - "the company is unneccesarlily making MY life difficult while I'm at work and someone better make it better".

 

[CE750Driver]

Dispatcher,

There are many examples. Most wont post any right now as most do not want to become a hostage if you are a management toadie. A specific example could be trouble. That being said, I will say to take a look at the X fleet for example. How come there are internationally qualified guys that go to Europe once a year, and others that they airline across country on extended days to get in position for a trip? How come 3 or 4 of those guys should have an apartment in Paris or London as much as they are over. Others go years without a trip and become unqualed. Explain that.

I would tell you to ask ANY X pilot to tell you an example of how sceduling is corrupt and costs this company millions. If you are a nice guy and they trust you, Im sure they would give you many specific examples. I tell the FM's when they ask. That being said, 90% of the FM's and dispatchers I work with are top notch, great guys(and girls). The propaganda from management will start soon. I hope you people figure out who the bad guys are.

 

[ghostrider64]

Propaganda is well under way...From both sides...

I've heard a beautiful explanation of Netjets business structure...Imagine several different smoke stacks built vertically....Now imagine each one of those stacks represents a different department...now imagine that there are no connections between the different structures....This my friends is the major flaw in scheduling et al and the entire operation...There is no way someone from flight ops that may see something that will make the day go by smoother and more efficiently can relay that info to scheduling and be assured they will use the info...

ie each section is only accountable to itself...no checks and balances there...

The one recurring scheduling flaw that irks me is you arrive late at night and see 2 or 3 similar aircraft that are flyable and crewed...then after a 10 hour turn you return to the airport and see those aircraft still parked there...IE you get min rest when the load could have been shared more evenly...But as I said above, we have no input into scheduling at all...

I say all of this knowing that schedulers aren't intentionally scheduling poorly...they are busy as hell...but they aren't good about listening to concerns or suggestions from the end users of their briefs...ie the pilots....and like it or not the crews are the ones that should have direct input as they see the problems early in the day....

 

[AirBear8]

I fail to see how this can run a company into the ground.

I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is scheduling and the company are blowing off the contract they signed with the pilots. I'm not talking about grey areas, I'm talking about black and white issues. Even the new LOA allowing pilots to sit at an FBO for a max 6 hours is being frequently violated. My feeling is that schedulers are doing a lot of CYA and are just afraid to release or send a pilot to the hotel/home because it might come back and bite them in the a$$. I don't think it's their personal fault this is happening. It's mostly a lack of planning for 91K and a resulting shortage of crews and also a cultural thing with the company and the urination contest they're having with the pilots right now.

A regional airline I spent a few years at would throw the contract out the window if following it might delay or cancel a flight. Once I asked why they were assigning me something that was a clear violation and the answer was "operational necessity". I asked what page of the contract addressed that and got a stoney silence at the other end. Crew Trackers at this airline were frequently screamed at by supervisors because they couldn't find pilots to cover open time. Again, I can't fault them because it was more of a corporate culture that was to blame. They just wanted to avoid being yelled at. I've seen what's happening at NJA a number of times at other companies. I think 90% of the problems will be cleared up with a new contract and sufficient bodies to staff the operation. This was the case with my previous airline. Their fleet doubled in size the 2 years I was there but they did not plan ahead for staffing and training flow. Once they got caught up contract violations decreased.

In my friends case I suspect he didn't ask about sitting at home because he didn't want to risk being turned down. As close as he was to the FBO/Airport he could get there in a hurry so I think he just took a chance. Keep in mind he's still in training and can only fly with a IOE Check Airman. There's nothing else the company could have him do except that or airline out to meet up with one. IOE Check Airman are very scarce, I think he waited over a month to get his first IOE trip started.

As far as "running the company into the ground" I think that's a fairly common (and exaggerated) complaint at large organizations. I've been flying for a living since 1981 and employees at every company I've ever been with have said the same thing. NJA doesn't have a monopoly on that. I think pilots aren't truely happy unless they're bitching about how stupid management is

 

[dsptchrnja]

Dispatcher,

There are many examples. Most wont post any right now as most do not want to become a hostage if you are a management toadie. A specific example could be trouble.

You're bowing my cover! Seriously, if it's that important to you - PM me and I will tell you who I am - I've got nothing to hide and nothing to gain from this board. It should go without saying I do not represent the company's point of view nor any single person in dispatch or the flight center. My opinions are my own.

That being said, I will say to take a look at the X fleet for example. How come there are internationally qualified guys that go to Europe once a year, and others that they airline across country on extended days to get in position for a trip? How come 3 or 4 of those guys should have an apartment in Paris or London as much as they are over. Others go years without a trip and become unqualed. Explain that.

I would tell you to ask ANY X pilot to tell you an example of how sceduling is corrupt and costs this company millions. If you are a nice guy and they trust you, Im sure they would give you many specific examples. I tell the FM's when they ask. That being said, 90% of the FM's and dispatchers I work with are top notch, great guys(and girls). The propaganda from management will start soon. I hope you people figure out who the bad guys are.

I'm not going to spew off some half-guess like I know what I'm talking about in answer to your question. I am strictly a domestic DX and have never been a scheduler. However, this is not a new allegation and back when Bill Boisture first began he started an official 3rd party investigation into this very topic and as you may or may not know it came back clear of any wrong-doing by any scheduler. I am at home and don't have the specifics but when I get back to work I can look it up. I am going to be out for 3 days on a trip. If you have proof that this is true you can call the ethics hotline and report it and remain annonymous. Obviously, they take stuff like that seriously. Otherwise I have to assume your not getting the whole story. That's been my experience every time I look into a complaint - someone makes an accusation based on only 20% of the information available.

What's with finding a bad guy? No one is out to get you. We need you and at the end of the day we're all on the same team. All I can tell you is what I've seen and heard with my own eyes. I have only seen this company operate with the utmost of integrity and treated people as fairly as it could - don't forget - they could have laid both of us off back during the recession - NJA was overstaffed by wide margins and it cost them big bucks to keep us employed - but Santulli kept his promise that he wouldn't lay off or furlough a single person. How quickly we forget...

stay safe

 

[I-R-DXR]

I live in a hole at work but from the I cant say Ive seen ANYONE try to *uck a crewmember.

or vice versa

This is the end of the line for me in aviation. This company is my last stop. I love my job and love NetJets. Aviation as a whole is VERY unstable. 9/11 just made a bad hand worse. NetJets was my hope in some sort of stability. I was willing to give up some things for stability - pay to be precise.

Every side has its story - to bad others will get pulled in. I have heard on the phone and read threads saying "we will take this company down" or "give me what I want or I put this Company under".

Please dont go there - You will make enemies of the whole flight center when it was not needed. You have people at work bust'n butts watchin your backs, dont stab them in theirs.


--Note
Goes without saying but - I speak for myself NOT for any Company or any group.

 

[buttercup]

I'll say it. SCHEDULERS ARE RUNNING THIS PLACE INTO THE GROUND.

There are too many examples to list. Scheduling doesn't operate within any rules and regulations. We call the BS on half their "scheduling" plans.

But oh yeah we don't see the big picture.

I'm just going to go punch a wall.

LOL!!Punch a wall.. Sounds like someone who did that had a CCCCChip on their shoulder!!

 

[Fracster]

Scheduling is corrupt and we all know it. The union has proof, the company does nothing about it.

Why does a senior Falcon pilot get 4 on 3 off for 8 months? Because he admittedly sent food and gifts to a scheduler in order to get the schedule.

Why does a Hawker pilot on the 7&7, on many occasions, get the first 2 days on STBY at home, go out for 5, airline home on day 7 and sit at home for 2 extended days?

The proof is there. Again, the union and the pilot group reported it and NutJets management, for whatever reason, does nothing about it.
The formal inquiry a few months back revealed significant lapses in judgement but yet nothing was done about it.

I will say that recently some new schedulers have been brought on and we can't pass judgement on them yet. Lastly, scheduling does not have at their disposal the proper tools to complete their jobs efficiently and effectively. Again, another case of this sh!t bag operation claiming "this is the way we have always done it".