NetJets and personal travel

[jahstah]

I'm sure this question has been asked but for those of you who are ex-airline (who travel a lot), how is the transition to the frax side? Do you really rack up the frequent flyer miles enough for personal travel for you and your family? Also, are there any non-rev agreements with any airlines.

 

[Gator1999]

The transition was very easy for me, others have had issues with the whole customer service thing. If you think you are above handling owner bags and cleaning the cabin, don't apply. As far as the company, they treat us well, and depending on your fleet, some work harder than others just because of the missions that they can do. All in all, its a great job and nice to be looking at the airlines from the outside.

The frequent flyer miles rack up plenty quick, I have managed to get Delta Silver this past year and along with the miles that we get thru the Hilton double dip miles.

As far as nonrev agreements, we don't have anything offical with other airlines to get us id95's or anything like that. I have heard of people trying to jumpseat on Airtran and Southwest but we don't have any offical agreements with them. As a sidenote, Even if we did, it wouldn't be any good...when I airline around for work the flights are always full. With the airlines now slashing their schedules to try and save on fuel, there are fewer flights and still plenty of people travelling. Hope it helps.

 

[theskyking]

Good luck non revving with a further reduction in capacity by the airlines. I'll take my frequent flier miles over what used to be a nice perk any day.

I am ex-airline and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[WindBraker]

Is it mainly Hilton Hotels at NJA??

 

[jtf]

I get about 6 airline tickets a year at NJA. If I didn't do the SouthWest airlines double dip with Hilton it would probably be 5 per year since that one only requires 32 nights in hotels versus 50 nights for all the other frequent flier programs. Unfortunately even though they are a positive space seat, frequent flier rewards aren't the easiest to use since they limit the amount of seats per flight so much. At least you know your vacation far enough in advance to use them then, and if you are on 7 and 7 it is also a great help in finding available seats for the times you know you'll have off. I have done around 50 percent of my nights in Hilton properties over the last couple of years. Hope this helps.

 

[fischman]

Is it mainly Hilton Hotels at NJA??

We stay at a lot of Hilton properties.

FWIW, I earn about 350,000 hhonors points in a year. NO problem maintaining diamond status.

 

[Helmsalee]

Just finished indoc. They gave us instant Diamond status right off the bat just for being NJ pilots. I work out of ATL. One of the veterans here told me I would probably make Platinum Medallion by Christmas.

 

[FL990]

Not to change the subject...but I have heard people say (I am not sure if it was NJ or another fractional) that on the live legs, only the captain flies the aircraft. Is this true? I know it is a petty question but given the experience level of many of the folks they are hiring now, this seems insulting. Can anyone clear this up?

 

[Mooneymite]

Mileage may vary....

We stay at a lot of Hilton properties.

FWIW, I earn about 350,000 hhonors points in a year. NO problem maintaining diamond status.

I've been here more than two years. I'm not sure I have 350,000 Hilton points yet and I double dip...(do not get airline miles, just Hilton points).

I do not have enough points for a free ticket on any airline yet, because the company flies me on several different airlines that do not code share so I don't collect enough on any single carrier.

Luckily, I'm retired 121 and use my airline passes to go where I want. Despite the rumors, my wife and I travel non-rev pretty much at will. From my perspective, 121 non-rev is far superior to the frequent flyer gig.

 

[CA1900]

Not to change the subject...but I have heard people say (I am not sure if it was NJ or another fractional) that on the live legs, only the captain flies the aircraft. Is this true?

Only in a sense that yes, there are some insecure captains who won't let the right-seater fly passengers, but it's not the norm, no.

During your first 50 hours here, you're prohibited by company policy from acting as the Pilot Flying on passengers legs (I guess to get the feel of the airplane on empty legs), and I have no problem with that policy. Of course, the fact that the 50-hour period is mentioned in the book should be a clue for those insecure captains that it's not the norm.

I know it is a petty question but given the experience level of many of the folks they are hiring now, this seems insulting.

I agree wholeheartedly. Ironically, my experience with the stick-hogs is that they're usually the roughest on the controls themselves.

 

[Mooneymite]

Not to change the subject...but I have heard people say (I am not sure if it was NJ or another fractional) that on the live legs, only the captain flies the aircraft. Is this true? I know it is a petty question but given the experience level of many of the folks they are hiring now, this seems insulting. Can anyone clear this up?

I've heard about a few captains who do this...

It's never happened to me. We switch every other leg, just like the airlines, passengers, or no passengers.

 

[CA1900]

Two Years and not a single free ticket? That's really unusual. In a year and a half, I've gotten four, plus the one I bought with the points from the company credit card.

One thing to check, if you're not doing so already: partner airlines. In many cases, you can choose to have miles flown on one airline go towards the FF program on another. United and US Airways do that (I loathe riding United, so I send all those miles to US), and Continental, Delta, and Northwest all do it. (In that case, I hate riding Northwest, so I alternate those points between Delta and Continental, depending on which one's closest to a ticket.)

Don't forget the Hilton Double-Dip: you can forego a few Hilton points, and get 500 miles per stay on the airline of your choice. As most of our stays are one night, that adds up very quickly. Assuming half your nights are at Hilton properties, and subtracting out training and vacation, that's still 63 nights, or 31,500 miles, which should get you a domestic ticket on anybody.

Since you're actually having good luck non-revving (lucky guy), though, you might want the extra Hilton points... lots of options.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Only in a sense that yes, there are some insecure captains who won't let the right-seater fly passengers, but it's not the norm, no.


I agree wholeheartedly. Ironically, my experience with the stick-hogs is that they're usually the roughest on the controls themselves.

It cuts both ways and the Owner's comfort wins... and it's hardly about PIC insecurity.

If the SIC is up to the experience/proficiency level of flying with pax on board, they do fly live legs. If they are still getting a feel for the jet, they don't. PTS is about passing check rides... not Owner comfort and service levels.

What's important is the ride the Owners get, not the feelings of the SIC.

Maybe not answer you wanted but...

It's gonna be a while to upgrade. Get comfortable with the plane and the operation. The pay is the same regardless of who is flying.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Luckily, I'm retired 121 and use my airline passes to go where I want. Despite the rumors, my wife and I travel non-rev pretty much at will. From my perspective, 121 non-rev is far superior to the frequent flyer gig.

HAHHAH. Thanks for the laugh. I needed one...

Sure, I love sitting in some airline terminal wondering if I'll get on too instead of waiting with a ticket KNOWING I'll get on.

I've flown with Space A and with positive space FF tickets.

I agree with you... there IS no other way to travel. Give me FF any day.

Tomatoe, tomahto

 

[CA1900]

It cuts both ways and the Owner's comfort wins... and it's hardly about PIC insecurity.

Sometimes it is.

If the SIC is up to the experience/proficiency level of flying with pax on board, they do fly live legs. If they are still getting a feel for the jet, they don't.

Oh, I completely agree with that. I'm talking about the captain who, on day 1, before the plane's even unlocked, says, "I'll be flying all the passenger legs," having no idea of the other guy's experience level or skill.

PTS is about passing check rides... not Owner comfort and service levels.

I didn't say anything about the PTS.

It's gonna be a while to upgrade. Get comfortable with the plane and the operation. The pay is the same regardless of who is flying.

Yes, it is. And if he's ham-fisted and rough on the controls, then no, he shouldn't be flying our owner legs yet.

But to just make a baseless assumption that the guy next to you isn't up to the task, simply because he got here a couple of years later, is insulting.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Sometimes it is.



Oh, I completely agree with that. I'm talking about the captain who, on day 1, before the plane's even unlocked, says, "I'll be flying all the passenger legs," having no idea of the other guy's experience level or skill.



I didn't say anything about the PTS.



Yes, it is. And if he's ham-fisted and rough on the controls, then no, he shouldn't be flying our owner legs yet.

But to just make a baseless assumption that the guy next to you isn't up to the task, simply because he got here a couple of years later, is insulting.

Agreed on all points dude.

PTS is the mantra of airline training departments. If he/she meets PTS then he/she is safe to fly. True... but our Owners pay for polish and our culture here reflects that in certain ways.

Polish on the controls takes a while to get down. And as we all know, flying is probably 1/10th of what we deal with as pilots here at NJA. If I sense that the other aspects of the job are fodding out an F/Os ability to function and they are "mentally caught up in it" even before the engines start, why would I say "Ok, your leg" on an LGA departure. For those of you following along, the F/O would be taxiing too if it's their leg.

The Owners expect a high level of knowledge and proficiency. There is plenty to be learned on empty legs... and plenty of future flying opportunities with pax once experience and proficiency is gained.

Also, about the Captain who said, "I get the live ones"... it's hard to tell what type of day he was having. There are times where it's easier to deal with the smirk of an F/O in response to that choice as PIC than to fill out the paperwork required to respond to the CP, FMs OS and every other yahoo that gets involved when a flight doesn't go as well as expected.

There are many factors involved, more than mentioned here but in the end what is important?

Owner satisfaction and perception.

Remember team work and polish. The pay is the same and ferry legs are more fun anyway.

 

[CA1900]

Polish on the controls takes a while to get down.

Definitely. The last guy I flew with who insisted on doing all the flying has apparently still working on it. He said he wanted to practice hand-flying for the sim he had two weeks later... I talked him out of it after whitecaps started appearing in my coffee.

There are many factors involved, more than mentioned here but in the end what is important?

Personally brewing the coffee myself, with the good stuff I bring with me, so I know it'll be good. Nothing is more important! :laugh: I get a kick out of hearing, "You're changing out the coffee again?"


Sounds like we're on the same page; it's hard to pick up on a message board sometimes...

 

[imacdog]

There are plenty of weak Captains at NJA. That's all I'll say.

 

[fly4ever]

Four stripes on the shoulders and jacket doesn't mean a person is any less ham-fisted. We have all kinds just like the airlines do.

 

[jtf]

MooneyMite- you should definitely be getting more HH points working here. Do you ever check and make sure all your stays are counted? I've flown with guys who have had months worth of stays go into other peoples accounts before they figured it out and got things cleared up. Another thing you might be missing out on is the bonus points instead of internet or snacks or breakfast that is usually part of the NetJets rate anyway- that's 1000 points per nights at most of the Hilton properties. If you are who I think you are, I was in basic indoc with you and I've gotten over 650000 HH points while using the company card the whole time.