Netjet contract

[Ragtime67]

Is there any word what the companys going to offer with a new TA? And what do the pilots really want?

 

[Guitar Guy]

First things first. There is an MEC election to be held before any new negotiations with the company. There are a lot of issues from what I hear from my more senior co-workers, not just the much-talked-about pay topic.

 

[Ragtime67]

Thanks for the reply Guitar Guy. Most pilots I speak to on the road indicate that either the company or the pilot group need to get somthing done before Feb. 91k? There is very little "talk" about the MEC, the union, or the contract compared to the vote down. Even the guys on the road seem to know next to nothing about what's next, or are they just keeping mum so that the same crap does not get started all over again?

 

[Guitar Guy]

From what I've been told, the MEC election is now the pressing issue. The company has said that they are ready to re-enter negotiations when the union is ready. As for FAR Part 91, Subpart K being a driving issue to get a contract done, I've not heard that. Most of the scuttlebutt that I've heard seems to indicate that most pilots think a new TA will not ready until well after Feb '05. We shall see.

 

[bluepost]

Mec ballots will be counted Dec 22nd or 23rd. Still need a survey done. First mediation dates are set in Feb. So forget about having it done by Feb....or April for that matter.


Here is a review:

Aug we reached a TA and our MEC, Local and International all supported it. Our MEC went around the country for 6 weeks hard selling this thing. Got voted down by 82%.

Meanwhile our MEC's term was up end of Oct so we had a MEC election going on at the same time. It was illegal for a couple paperwork issues, national stepped in, new MEC election is going on now....ballots will be counted Dec 22nd or 23rd.

"Strong Union" a slate running for MEC positions started a petition drive to leave the local. They received approx 1300 (out of 1850 pilots) petitons and counting. This gives us more power with the national, the local hasn't been representing our interests (see 82% above). We pay almost 2 mill in dues, we want our OWN local. NOT move to local 747, the near defunct airline division.

Based on the petitions received and the 82% NO vote, the assumption is that Strong Union will be voted in. With it, a new local in the spring, a new legal team and a new and separtate negotiating commitee. They have already leased office space, lawyers (all from dontations) and most interesting billboards in CMH near HQ. Rumors of a owners info website, banner towing aircraft at NJA sponsored events and picketing are some of the more interesting notes.

Next big date is Dec 22nd for the count and then Feb when Subpart K kicks in and we are still under our old contract which may present some problems for the company....and of course the first round of mediation since the NO vote.

 

[Dep676]

I heard the company offered a "big" raise after the contract was turned down and it was turned down also. Any truth to this?

 

[bluepost]

None what so ever......

 

[rajflyboy]

It will take a while for the Netjets Contract. Plan on at least a year or so!

 

[Dep676]

I didn't think that there was any truth to it. Just wanted to check. The source I got it from knows someone that works at NJI. So they think they know all about NJA.

 

[Fracster]

NutJets reportedly offered a 30% raise at the very beginning of negotiations over 3 years ago. The rejected TA did not have nearly that amount as a raise although Dave Vermuelen and his merry scumbags tried vigorously to get the pilot group to believe that we received more than that.

What scumbag Vermuelen didnt realize is that pilots actually have a brain.

NJA is in for a rude awakening once SU is voted in. In the past, all the MEC's have not been willing to fight the fight. They have been quoted as saying "we don't want to make the company mad". As for SU, their intent is not to make the company mad or put the company out of business as the current LOSER MEC has claimed but rather fight for what this tremendously talented group of pilots has earned.

Anyhow, the weeks from December 22 to February 15 will be extrememly interesting. The beginning of 91K could potentialy cause great problems for NJA provided the current MEC has not ILLEGALY signed away relief to the company which would not be out of character for them.

 

[bluepost]

I'm sure we could of got 30% still if we agreed to 8 on 6 off, no hourly OT, max 3 weeks vacation etc.

Here is the deal. With 7and7 according to NBAA breakdowns, for my aircraft I should be making 120k a yr when taking EVERYTHING into account, RONs, hours flown, hard days off, etc. If they go to 8 on, I would never vote for it, but that would raise the minimum pay to about 135k.

They can keep playing these games, but nothing has changed for me in the past 4 months....not my hours flown, not our clients net worth, not the NBAA numbers, not the dangers at ASE and definitly not my standards.

120k a year for me year six, 100% retro or its a NO vote, and will continue to be a NO vote for eternity, or until I get a job at SWA, or Airtran, or Mcds, or Case, or BP, or Jblue, or Fedex, or UPS. Get the picture?


Because here is the deal. Before the ink is even dry on the first TA that passes...that WILL BE the new fractional pay scale. It will be the benchmark for years to come, not just for us, but will create either upward or downward pressure on corporate gigs also. If we take 85k yr 5, Option or CS or anyone else will have a hard time convincing anyone that they are worth more, since the almighty NETJETS could only affoard 85k, and we fought for 3.5 years with a national mediator, and had X number of TAs voted down, etc, etc.

 

[FAcFriend]

Good Luck.

I have known a few MCDs pilots. All but one moved alot. But for some that doesnt matter very much. You have to pick what is important to you. I think you are right that without the high med benefits (not so important to younger healthier pilot families) and other bennies you can get more money from net jets no problem. After speaking with many people I think that the TA gave you too much of things that cost the company money (like the additional retirement $ and benefits) but not enough of what you really wanted which is cash in hand. Drop some of the other sh** take the cash now and sounds like the pilots will be happier.

I had heard that 91K has no effect on net jets. That it was a SU rumor that 91k has any impact on the TA, does anyone have any hard facts on the issue?

 

[beechjetpilot1]

Is netjets going 91k or 135? We at FLOPs are going completely 135.

 

[netjetwife]

Bluepost, that is an excellent recap; however, you left out one important aspect of the situation. Shortly after the TA came out, we had a "hostage" taken for daring to express his feelings --graphically--about the company propaganda we were all bombarded with. After SU gave an interview to a local Columbus newspaper last month, our valiant pilot was fired. The timing of the two was just days apart; that is a fact. The perception of retribution is my own. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if many others feel the same way.

Rajflyboy...the eternal pessimist.....we will see! I really believe that SU understands that the pilots and their families are sick an' tired of waitin'! But after all this time it would be foolish to just throw something together, thereby making the long wait all in vain and leaving the pilots left with a bad contract.

FAcFriend, I have to disagree with your viewpoint. The goal of any group is to get the best deal for the most--across the board. I gather that the pilots are tired of the company's attempts to divide them--that isn't going to fly! Health care and other such benefits are considered a staple of any professional's compensation package ALONG WITH an attractive salary. My family is fairly young...our 2 youngest kids are anyway...lol...and we are very healthy. Nonetheless, we realize that illness and accidents can strike ANY family and that adequate insurance is a requirement for ALL pilots and their families.

91K is a common sense issue. Anything coming from the FAA that addresses the working conditions/job rules WILL affect NJA. Who can say how much? We'll all find out together. SU does not stoop to rumors and intimidation--the pilots get plenty of that from the OTHER parties involved. On the contrary, SU has been very good at communication based on FACTS, which is just one of the reasons to justify the high level of confidence accorded to them. NJW (1 of many)

 

[gunfyter]

We gonna drop the Profit Sharing....

 

[netjetwife]

Oh, Gunfyter! How will we all survive without that $41 and change that the pilots were going to get IF they were LUCKY??? LOL Fine, my family will vote to give up the company's profit sharing plan, as well.....

 

[Fracster]

I almost peed myself when I read about the profit sharing. The company would have to make 100 MILLION dollars for us to get a check for 3 grand, yes, $3000!!!

We have the dumbest MEC in history! The company is beside itself with how easy this WAS for them. SU will not make the same mistakes.

Bluepost, you are absolutely correct. Years ago our payscale was made the bench mark so everyone today makes equal or better than our miserable wage. We have to raise the bar significantly.

As for the benefits we have costing the company tons of money, well, one of the pilots broke the benefits down and with the voted down TA we would be receiving a few thousand dollars more in benefits than we currently are. The MEC touted the benefits as $34,000 more than before. How's that for a little white lie. Sad part is they thought we would buy into it.

Anyhow, we are completly capable of getting the benefits and pay together. There is no giving up anything. We dont have anything to give up!

We could give up the 5 MEC members and the lawyer who tried to screw us.... anyone need a couple of losers who will sell you out at a moments notice...anyone.....anyone!

 

[netjetwife]

The lawyer who had never done an aviation contract before the NJ one? Is THAT the lawyer we're talking about?! Boooo! What a terrible waste of money that was!! A little over $7000 a PAGE for that legal advice...that insufficient, inadequate, overpriced legal "help"!! Rather a sore subject, isn't it? What a mess! Good thing there are a lot of hard working people volunteering their time to get it straightened out.