Nepotism In Aviation

[jetbluedog]

What are your thoughts of NEPOTISM in aviation? Is is out there?

Anyone out there working a job because of NEPOTISM? If so, how does it make you feel?

Is NEPOTISM a threat to the security and safety of our passenegers who expect truely experienced pilots?

Has anyone had a run in with NEPOTISM?

 

[kevdog]

NEPOTISM

That's a big word for this board!

 

[TonyC]

I don't know what "NEPOTIOSM" is....

we don't either:

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for nepotiosm:
1. nepotism
2. menopause
3. menopausal
4. nuptials
5. nonpossession
6. menopauses
7. Neapolis
8. Neanderthal
9. nightscopes
10. napalmed
11. nephoscopes

but if you are talking about "NEOPOTISM",

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for neopotism:
1. nepotism
2. nepotisms
3. nepotistic
4. nappiest
5. Neapolis
6. Neapolitans
7. knifepoints
8. Neanderthal
9. naughtiest
10. know-it-alls

then your implicaton is that NEOPOTISM preculdes

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for preculdes:
1. precludes
2. precooled
3. preclude
4. precodes
5. precools
6. proceeds
7. processed
8. Neanderthal
9. presold
10. proclaims

"safety and security" because of "inexperienced" pilots.

Tell you what. I'll put my wife's professionalism, safety, and experienece against yours, or any other pilot's, any day. How's that for "NEPOTISM" (sp)?

Congratulations, you finally spelled it correctly!

Main Entry: nep·o·tism
Pronunciation: 'ne-p&-"ti-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French népotisme, from Italian nepotismo, from nepote nephew, from Latin nepot-, nepos grandson, nephew -- more at NEPHEW
: favoritism (as in appointment to a job) based on kinship
- nep·o·tis·tic /"ne-p&-'tis-tik/ adjective

Will you match her spelling to yours? (Remember, you started the spelling thing here.)

(Another ridiculous thread on flightinfo. Man, there's so many better places on the internet to spend my time these days.

Might I recommend Meriam-Webster Online

I still like to come here from time to time, but that time is getting less and less.)

I think I'll just stick to answering questions and posting information about my current company...and that's it.

You're right. It is a stretch to discuss favoritism in airline hiring practices on FlightInfo.com. We indeed should restrict our conversations to just YOUR current company.

Does your current company's nepotism policy also allow childen of employees to be considered for employment? I know some airlines' anti-nepotism policies only restrict spouses, some only restrict children, some might restrict any blood relative, and some might restrict all of the above. Other companies have no such restrictions, but rather give preferential treatment to relatives.

Do you think such preferential hiring practices (the ones at your company, of course) contribute to the performance of the company?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by TonyC
Do you think such preferential hiring practices...contribute to the performance of the company?

It depends.

At Eastern, back in the day, being the son of an Eastern pilot virtually garaunteed you an interview, not necessarily a job. They recognized that it's possible for a first-rate L-1011 captain to sire a child who can't fly worth a fart. You still had to prove yourself in training.

Delta, for quite some time, was exactly the opposite. If your step-uncle's third cousin (twice removed) was a ramp agent in Lafayette, Louisiana, for five months in 1963, they wouldn't hire you.

(Well, I'm exaggerating a little...)

As in the Eastern example, I believe nepotisim contributed very slightly to the company's performance. There was an sense of pride that came with the legacy.

 

[TonyC]

What are your thoughts of NEPOTISM in aviation? Is is out there?

Anyone out there working a job because of NEPOTISM? If so, how does it make you feel?

Is NEPOTISM a threat to the security and safety of our passenegers who expect truely experienced pilots?

Has anyone had a run in with NEPOTISM?

Nepotism most definitely exists in the industry. While some companies have policies that forbid nepotism in some form or another, most, I believe, do not.

When the competition is so fierce, as it is today, the recommendation of a current employee goes a long way toward getting a job with Company X. Getting that recommendation from a relative, be it spouse, father, uncle, or cousin, carries a certain deal of weight.

Now, as to the goodness or badness of that practice, that's another story. You asked if it compromises safety and security. I don't believe it does, IN GENERAL. There may be certain circumstances or hypotheticals that could be developed where safety or security might be compromised. Were my wife and I to be confined to the cockpit of an MD-11 for the time it takes to transit the continent, it is quite possible that a situation might develop where we would both be distracted from the task of flying the airplane. That doesn't mean that the passengers would be inherently at risk if my wife simply works at the same airline, or even flies the same airplane at a different time or on a different route.

I do believe, though, that the preferential hiring practice will leave MORE qualified candidates for the job outside the process. While I might be excited to get my son a job flying for my company, it is likely that he would be hired ahead of another individual with better technical qualifications or credentials. Is that fair? Well, that's debatable.

While I know of many, many cases of nepotism at my company (sorry, flx757, I'll get back to the topic quickly) I know of not one single instance where safety or security was compromised by nepotism.

flx757, have you ever missed a radio call while you were "talking to" your wife?

 

[Simon Says]

Tony,
That Fred Smith is giving you all way too much time on your hands. Good post though.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Tony,

do you know of any husband and wife flying the same plane? I've heard a while back that NWA had a crew of husband and wife that both flew 727's? Don't know how true that is.

 

[TonyC]

Tony,

do you know of any husband and wife flying the same plane? I've heard a while back that NWA had a crew of husband and wife that both flew 727's? Don't know how true that is.

Several. We have at least 3 couples that I know of that are on the same plane, and I'm sure there could be others that I don't know of. I am not aware if they actually fly trips together or not, but there is no restriction, at least that I'm aware of, that would prevent them from flying every trip together. I know of one couple that intentionally does NOT - - they stagger their trips so they can take turns with childcare.

I also know of brothers that fly together, and fathers/sons that have flown together, and not just for "Fini" flights.

 

[flx757]

Wow Tony, you're so smart....so smart...as is smart ass.. And you wonder why I don't waste my time here.

So long, professor.

BTW, my wife and I don't fly for the same company, much less fly together. Just making a point that so what if we did? That would make her somehow less professional, safe or experienced?

But of course, you're so smart you obviously knew that? Right? Then again, why would you ask such a stupid question like "Have I ever missed a radio call while "talking to" my wife"?

So, it's back to more productive things. I won't be back to this thread. In fact, I'll only be back to this board at all if I can provide some productive information on what is happening at Alaska. YOU can discuss whatever you please. I simply stated what I would restrict MY posts to. But of course...you obviously knew that, too....since you know everything.

You guys have fun showing the world how much you know, and what the south end of a northbound jackass looks like.

 

[jetexas]

AA had a "friends and family" hiring program under CP Cecil Ewell. It was still there to some degree once he left, but military took prescedence then.
It sure didn't hurt to have a dad, uncle, etc flying for AA. You'd get an interview, pre 9/11.

 

[TonyC]

Wow Tony, you're so smart....so smart...as is smart ass.. And you wonder why I don't waste my time here.

So long, professor.

BTW, my wife and I don't fly for the same company, much less fly together. Just making a point that so what if we did? That would make her somehow less professional, safe or experienced?

But of course, you're so smart you obviously knew that? Right? Then again, why would you ask such a stupid question like "Have I ever missed a radio call while "talking to" my wife"?

So, it's back to more productive things. I won't be back to this thread. In fact, I'll only be back to this board at all if I can provide some productive information on what is happening at Alaska. YOU can discuss whatever you please. I simply stated what I would restrict MY posts to. But of course...you obviously knew that, too....since you know everything.

You guys have fun showing the world how much you know, and what the south end of a northbound jackass looks like.

In the first place, I notice you've removed the post that I answered, wherein you ridiculed jetbluedog for asking about nepotism. Now you want to get your panties in a wad because I gave you some of your own medicine? Gimme a break.

Just for the record, I'll reassemble your attack on jetbluedog.

I don't know what "NEPOTIOSM" is.... but if you are talking about "NEOPOTISM", then your implicaton is that NEOPOTISM preculdes "safety and security" because of "inexperienced" pilots.

Tell you what. I'll put my wife's professionalism, safety, and experienece against yours, or any other pilot's, any day. How's that for "NEPOTISM" (sp)?

(Another ridiculous thread on flightinfo. Man, there's so many better places on the internet to spend my time these days.

I still like to come here from time to time, but that time is getting less and less.)

I think I'll just stick to answering questions and posting information about my current company...and that's it.

Well, I'll let the pompous attitude of that post, and of your last, speak for themselves.

You spoke as if you had experience with the subject of nepotism, a la your wife, when in fact you apparently have no relevant experience to relate. This is a forum to exchange information, including opinions, and I offered mine. You have offered nothing but a bad attitude.

I trust that you've just had a bad day, and this is not typical of your entire life or that of other Alaska employees.

Have a nice day.

 

[flyboy]

I read an article in Flying magazine a couple of years ago that talked about this very thing. The story was written by a man who had been hired by TWA back in the 70's (with only 350 hours....wow how things have changed) and was currently a united 767 cap. Somewhere along the way, his wife, who had been an FA, decided to be a pilot and worked her way up the regional chain. She eventually ended up at, you guessed it, United. Later, she herself became a captain on the 767. The story ends with the author talking about jumpseating a flight in which his wife was the captain and his son was the first officer. Talk about a conflict of interest. Once again, probably no nepotism here.

 

[KigAir]

The story ends with the author talking about jumpseating a flight in which his wife was the captain and his son was the first officer. Talk about a conflict of interest. Once again, probably no nepotism here. [/B]

I am surprised United allows family members to work on the same flight crew. Nepotism is a factor in every business. My company(non-flying) does not allow family members to work in the same business unit.

 

[starchkr]

UPS doesn't allow it, at least that is what a recruiter told me. My dad's wife has a cousin who is a captain for them and i asked the recruiter if a family member could help me get a job there. She replied, "if you consider him family then they will not hire me, however if i do not then yes it would help."

 

[flx757]

Tony,

Even though I said I wouldn't return to this thread, I felt I should point out that you are still missing the point and jumping to conclusions and misconceptions. Just because we don't work for the same company now doesn't mean we didn't in the past. But, since you know everything, you knew this, too. This whole discussion with you is totally pointless since you believe what you believe, no matter what anyone says. Those who know me know my attitude is anything but bad. I just have no patience for smart-ass know-it-alls. If anyone wants to read your previous posts and compare them to my previous posts, then tell me who has the "bad attitude" and is the sarcastic smart ass.

This is why I decline to participate further in these "debates". Got a question about what is going on at Alaska? I will be glad to try and find the answer. Otherwise, have a good day.