Need some help here!!!!

[KeroseneSnorter]

My job situation keeps getting worse by the minute here. In short airplane is getting expensive, looking at options, 135 etc, etc. Pay scale is under attack again.

Not trying to pry, but if some of you could list what you are getting for a 550, or Beechjet 400 sized airplane annually it would be a huge help. NBAA is one thing, but I need to try to show these boys real world numbers if possible. Part 135 and 91 if possible. Left Seat preferable, but right seat will be helpful too. Also if you could list average hours a year.

PM me if you do not want it posted in public, I will not use names or screen names, this is just to try to keep the profession from going down the toilet any further!!!!

No flames please, it is getting to where I may be forced to walk away from the job, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe I can return the favor one day.

Thanks,

KS

 

[400A]

$$$$$

Some of the low end charter pay scales in the area start as low as 45 for a C-550 Capt.

I would say from what I know that somewhere in the High 50's to mid 60's are more the average. I do know of a few near or at 70, but they are premium gigs.

As sad as it is, the guys in the 45 range are flying the most.

I have found the Pro Pilot numbers to be fairly close in our area.

These are Captain numbers, Not Chief Pilot or Aviation Department Manager.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Thanks for the reply.

I am starting to think about falling back on my degree field. Flying just doesn't have the future it once did. I guess it is the walmart mentality, 6 million dollar airplane, burning 3 dollar a gallon jet A, flown by a 2 dollar pilot!

OK lets see here.......aviation career checklist....

CFIing, save you life every 3 minutes: Check
135 Freight in deathtraps......: Check
121 regionals for poverty wages: Check
Get to a Major: Check
Get furloughed from a major: Check
Get downsized from a corporate: ..........jury is still out....

Lets see...about all I am missing is an ex-wife or two.........

Might be time to quit before I get to that point

 

[Hobbs]

Wal-Mart Mentality

Kerosene Snorter:

What are you talking about re: Wal-Mart $2 pilot??? Captains with a few years under their belts are into 6 figures including bonus, stock options and profit sharing.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene Snorter:

What are you talking about re: Wal-Mart $2 pilot??? Captains with a few years under their belts are into 6 figures including bonus, stock options and profit sharing.

I was not speaking of their flight department. More of the practices that go into their store stock. Lowest bidder, sell it to us for next to no profit or find another retailer type of thing. I guess I could have said "airline mentality" and had it work just as well. $40 million dollar airplane, 2 dollar pilot! Lots of places are making it very hard to be a pilot over age 25, unless you don't have a family and live in a doublewide.

No offense, just venting a little. Used to be able to find a career in this business, I am starting to think that the lottery is the best chance at funding my retirement.

Anybody got any lucky numbers you want to part with?

 

[Flywrite]

I recently interviewed for an FO position in a BE400 in the southeast. The job was with a management company flying 91 and 135. Pay started in the low 40s for right seat with mediocre benefits and 401K but no match.

 

[Kingairrick]

Don't go puttin on the orange vest just jet. Fight to keep the job you have, while looking for a better gig. It's no fun to live under the gun. There are other jobs for good people...my .02. sorry I can't help with the origional Q.

 

[aeronautic1]

Ditto

I am 48 years young and took a new job flying right seat in G200 with pay in the mid 40's to start with $5K annual bumps for the first two years. Company paid training. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there if you spend the time wisely and network effectively. I only got my job because I persistantly bugged the crap out of them until they sent me to school. Put yourself out there.

In answer to your question, my last Ce550 gig was based in Santo Domingo and paid $2500 per month plus room and board. Not bad when it includes an apartment and food. My last Lear lifeguard job paid $36K to start but have heard that the company now only pays $24K for F/Os.

 

[Frac Daddy]

I am 48 years young and took a new job flying right seat in G200 with pay in the mid 40's to start with $5K annual bumps for the first two years. Company paid training. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there if you spend the time wisely and network effectively. I only got my job because I persistantly bugged the crap out of them until they sent me to school. Put yourself out there.

In answer to your question, my last Ce550 gig was based in Santo Domingo and paid $2500 per month plus room and board. Not bad when it includes an apartment and food. My last Lear lifeguard job paid $36K to start but have heard that the company now only pays $24K for F/Os.

Company paid training? That should be a given.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Not going anywhere just yet. Airplane may go away though. The latest "idea" is having me doing the A/C manager and Cpt position that I do now, but also be on call 24/7 for the 135, BUT for less pay than the already lower than average for the plane, since I would lose my ability to fly contract stuff, which normally brings in $1000 to $1500 a month extra. Kind of hard to fly somebody elses bird when you have a phone rammed up your wazoo!!!

Working the contacts. Always.

Bad thing is I passed on a couple of offers a few months ago since I had just gone through recurrent on the company dime and didn't want to shaft the owner. Hmmm there is that Hindsight being 20/20 thing again. That will teach me.

I suspect the owner will go through a couple of pilots pretty quick if this course of action continues, or until whatever low time lowest bidder bends the airplane or scares a grumpy out of them.

Bad thing is that business is not down, the owner just decided that he still wants to own a jet, just doesn't want to pay for it anymore.

Not looking to get rich, in the wrong profession for that! It does look as though I can find a better paying gig flying a piston twin rather than a jet if he continues on this course. All I am looking for is somewhere around going rate for the gig. Appear to be headed for bottom feeder status though. I leave that to the malcontents that are unemployable anywhere else!!

End of rant.......whew I feel better!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I am 48 years young and took a new job flying right seat in G200 with pay in the mid 40's to start with $5K annual bumps for the first two years. Company paid training. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there if you spend the time wisely and network effectively. I only got my job because I persistantly bugged the crap out of them until they sent me to school. Put yourself out there.

In answer to your question, my last Ce550 gig was based in Santo Domingo and paid $2500 per month plus room and board. Not bad when it includes an apartment and food. My last Lear lifeguard job paid $36K to start but have heard that the company now only pays $24K for F/Os.

Mid 40's pay and "company paid training" (whooo!!!).....

"plenty of good paying jobs out there if you spend the time wisely and network effectively"

You cant be serious??? 48 yrs young huh?

This is the problem here folks...

-- "company paid training" is simply a given, and always should be. Stop making it seem like a big perk you jacka$$.

-- Mid 40's pay $ucks for corporate, and always will. The only people who get wet about mid 40's pay are CFIs and Regional F/O's. How does a 48 yr young live on a mid 40's income?

maybe it just dosent matter as long as you get to take to the sky each day.....

jeeesus...and we wonder why the industry is going to $hit....

just shoot me now.

.

 

[rice]

This is the problem here folks...

-- "company paid training" is simply a given, and always should be. Stop making it seem like a big perk you jacka$$.

-- Mid 40's pay $ucks for corporate, and always will. The only people who get wet about mid 40's pay are CFIs and Regional F/O's. How does a 48 yr young live on a mid 40's income?

maybe it just dosent matter as long as you get to take to the sky each day.....

jeeesus...and we wonder why the industry is going to $hit....

just shoot me now.

.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Snorter,
I used to believe in that loyalty thing to. Know what that gets you? ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!! Time to start looking out for number one. When you find that great gig with an owner who values his pilots as much as his plane then you can start being loyal to the boss again. Look at what you wrote about this guy, if it was me I'd be milking it for all I could get while simutaneously looking for that new gig and have no regrets when the a$$hole wakes up one day to find no one there to carry his sorry a$$ to his next destination.

I suspect the owner will go through a couple of pilots pretty quick if this course of action continues, or until whatever low time lowest bidder bends the airplane or scares a grumpy out of them.

Bad thing is that business is not down, the owner just decided that he still wants to own a jet, just doesn't want to pay for it anymore.

 

[G100driver]

Not going anywhere just yet. Airplane may go away though. The latest "idea" is having me doing the A/C manager and Cpt position that I do now, but also be on call 24/7 for the 135, BUT for less pay than the already lower than average for the plane, since I would lose my ability to fly contract stuff, which normally brings in $1000 to $1500 a month extra. Kind of hard to fly somebody elses bird when you have a phone rammed up your wazoo!!!

Working the contacts. Always.

If the boss is bent on going 135 and taking away contract work try and work a deal with him. Ask for $50-100/hr while flying charter. He can build it into his price model for the swindlers .... charter company.

I know charter works sucks, been there done that but it might help keep the pay checks more livible while you are looking for that job.

PS aeronautic1 You should do the same. Mid 40'´s-mid 50´s sucks for a G200. Sorry to rain on your parade.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Ask for $50-100/hr while flying charter. He can build it into his price model for the swindlers .... charter company.

Yeah, that should be a given..........I figured it would be a normal daily rate just like any other 91 operator with part time charter outfit does.

I have been the 135 route years back, at least that outfit paid extra for our 135 trips over our 91 stuff.

I don't know where all this came from, first hint was some rumbling a while back about PFT F/O's........he found out that didn't go far with me, We do SP ops for most of his 91 stuff (Not my choice, but not a problem) but pick up contract F/O's for the real long days and international stuff or anytime I want one (Aspen, Vail, etc..)....anyhow he came up with some dude that wanted to fly full time for free and was willing to pay for his own training. I refused to use the services of such an individual. I have no use for some stooge like that and I will not fly with them. If a CFI happens to be standing around and it's an out and back, or maint. flight and I offer, that is one thing. When the people in the back want two up front....that position pays. He may figure if he can get a free F/O, why can't he get a high time guy for discount prices.

Not this high time guy. Buddy just called that knows my situation, got me a sight unseen offer as a sales rep for a large drink company that starts at 40 k plus bonus.........nice to have friends that give you options if you need it. At least it will pay the bills if I need it.

12 years in the profession and I am still amazed at some of the crap I see!!!

 

[Capthuff]

Rick, I see you're in the falcons now? Congrats.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

if it was me I'd be milking it for all I could get while simutaneously looking for that new gig and have no regrets when the a$$hole wakes up one day to find no one there to carry his sorry a$$ to his next destination.



some of the best advice given yet.