Need King Air 200 help

[HMR]

I just got hired to fly Pt 135 PIC in a King Air 200. Management is deciding whether to send me to Simcom or Flight Safety. I've never been to either and would like an idea of what I'm in for. I started studying the Simcom BE200 manual. Anything in particular I should focus on? Also, I have no BE200 time. I flew it for my pre-employment checkout the other day and it seemed like a great airplane. Any tips from you King Air veterans would be appreciated.

HMR

 

[TRBojet]

HMR:

Well, I'm certaninly no King Air veteran, but I did recently go to training and fly it for a charter company within the past six months. It is a great airplane! And that's excellent to get the job with your time, especially in these lean times. I went to Simcom in Orlando and I thought they did a good job. I most recently went to Flightsafety for some other training, and they were very good, too. I don't think it matters where you go. Depends on who's paying. I think FS is about double the cost. Tips? The only thing I can remember was how initially I thought the steering was a little sensitive. Until you get used to it, get your power setting then release the brakes. At least that helped me in the sim. They'll probably tell you that anyway. Also, be careful when leveling off at altitude with the autopilot; if you get a different altitude clearance, only reselect the altitude alerter BEFORE the altitude capture is armed, or AFTER the altitude is actually captured. If you try to change the setting during the capturing phase, the autopilot will "go crazy" trying to capture the new altitude. You'll know more what I mean after seeing it in the airplane.

That's about all I can say. Maybe some more experienced KA pilots have some more imput for ya'.

Good luck.

 

[flywithruss]

You'll love the 200!

I've been in the airplane about six months now, and I can tell you that you'll LOVE the 200. It is a solid performer and is pretty easy to fly. I found the transition from piston flying to be pretty straightforward.

Simcom does a pretty good job of training ... I went there for my intial six months ago. I'm off to recurrent at Simuflite next month, and will be interested to see how it compares. If you've got the manual and can do some systems reading ahead of time, you'll be ahead of the game. If you have the QRH, learn the memory items for your emergency procedures. That will really help you out in the box.

Flying the airplane ... first, when you add power for takeoff, do so slowly until your props come in to the green arc ... then you can go to takeoff power pretty promptly. You can do this rolling or standing ... obviously, a rolling takeoff will make your run longer.

Depending on your flying background, you'll find that the King Air lands a lot flatter than other airplanes you've flown, especially if your past isn't Beech-heavy. It will take a lot of back-trim once you get full flaps in, but don't over flare or you'll be racing down the runway. Make sure you're down to Vref crossing the threshold, or the bird will float ... it doesn't like extra speed. Beyond the speed, it is pretty easy to get good landings out of the airplane. You have lots of rudder authority to simplify crosswind landings (I think the airplanes lands better in a crosswind!). Remember it sits pretty high ... higher than most light jets.

Like any new airplane, in fifty hours it'll be old hat. You'll enjoy the bird. After training, if there are any specific questions you have, post them and let the group have a whack at it! Feel free to PM me if you'd like any other advice. Study hard at the schoolhouse.

R

 

[Rick1128]

Congratulations

When I start on a new plane, I normally just read through the systems section to get a feel on how they work. I do this at least twice. When I do, I leave myself post-it notes on what I have questions about. I generally save these for ground school. Then I start reading through the flows and emergency procedures. If I have a panel chart, I will practice the flows until I am reasonably comfortable with them. The emergency procedures, I concentrate on the memory items. I do this so that during class I can concentrate on learning all the little stuff they pass on during class. The more comfortable you are with the flows and emergency procedures, will make it easier for you to stay ahead of the sim training. Getting behind is the biggest problem.

It sounds like you are being checked out as an F/O. Not single pilot. If that is the case, remember CREW, CREW, CREW. Use the other pilot. Primarily in the crew enviroment, when you are flying, that is all you do, FLY. The other pilot does all the other work. That is what they like to see.

A couple of other sim tips. Unless it is required for the manuver, there is no requirement to go right up to the speed limit. Stay at a comfortable speed. Why race around at 200 kts, when the aircraft flys very nicely at 150 - 160 knots clean? Give yourself more time to prepare yourself. Besides, they only have so much time to conduct your checkride, if you go faster, you give them more time to give you emergencies. Also before you go to school, get a copy of the company's required call outs.

Good luck.

 

[HMR]

Thanks for the helpful hints, keep 'em coming!

Rick- I was hired to fly single pilot. Our op specs don't require an FO. The chief pilot was concerned about my low time (1400/500) so he took me up and we basically did a comm. checkride. Man, I haven't sweated that much in a long time! Thanks Again.

 

[Huck]

The -200 is like the Cessna 172- it don't bite back.

Trying to get a greaser, though, is like setting down a four-legged table, especially if it has the little main tires.

 

[cvsfly]

Congrats! I've been flying the BE-B200 for 3+ yrs. Love it. I would be very interested to here about your companies insurance. We are a 1 aircraft 91 & 135 company. Our insurance requires us to be 2 pilots (after 9/11) to get reasonable rates and have a high liability (50 - reduced from $100 mil). Our "open" co-pilot mins are 1000tt/500me/25 type. We would like the ability to fly SP. Anyway, what yr is your company's KA? FMS? EFIS? Depending on what you have flown before, SP might be overwhelming especially if you have an FMS you are unfamilar with. I have plenty of notes. PM me. Take above advice as far as the sim/school goes. Watch your fuel load with full pax. Hard to greasers from that standard gear. Stay on speed with power, flare with nose wheel about 6" off the pavement, only come to idle power as you touch down (4 blade prop?), remember to disconnect YD before landing!

 

[flywithruss]

I've got time to add some more stuff that has popped in to my head today. I'll second cvsfly's post for the most part, though I'll say my landing technique is just a little different ... I aim for the aiming point markers and close the throttle over the threshold, and usually get good landings. However, our airplane does have three-bladed vs. four-blade props, which could make a difference.

Yaw damp is your friend ... generally, you'll use it 400' to 400' ... as mentioned, don't forget to turn it off before touchdown. My procedure is this ... when I'm ready to take the airplane back from George, I just move the electric trim ... this disconnects the AP without disturbing FD modes or tripping the yaw damp. I drop the flight director in the VFR pattern, and will use one click on the red button on final to kill the yaw damp.

A/C ... run your condition levers up to 65% after start and you can run your environmental on the ground with no problem. Just remember to bring the levers back at some point (I usually do this one at a time above 10k) or you'll float on landing. Make sure the environmental comes off before you close the throttles on landing (we do it around 400', but that's also two-crew).

Window ice needs to be on above 10k, but there's really not a reason not to keep it on all the time. Autofeather I usually keep on below 10k, but again, I don't know of a good reason you couldn't run it all the time.

Takeoff with approach flaps shortens your distances a fair amount, but gives you a pretty good second-segment climb penalty. When you're high-hot clean works best for t/o, flaps work well on short runways, other than that it is a matter of discretion. Remember that you can get in to places you can't get back out of; keep that in mind, esp. with 135 field requirements.

Fuel/weight management. Fully fueled, you've got 3500 lbs. Outboards only, about 2600#. In our a/c (OEW 8600#) we can put two pax and bags on with full fuel, or go to 2000# of fuel and fill the airplane. A good rule of thumb on fuel consumption is 800-850 the first hour, and 600-650 thereafter. Up in the mid-twenties you can get down to around 260PPH per side. For altitude planning, take your trip distance in nautical miles and plan on that flight level ... i.e., for an 80NM trip I wouldn't go higher than 8000'. Beyond 300NM, go as high as you like. The airplane is certified up to FL350 but I've never had reason to go above 290 ... I like 24 or 26 westbound and 25 or 27 eastbound. At gross weight, your climb performance will be pretty poor any higher than that.

Unless you have an FMS, get good at time to descend calculations ... it is pretty common to be at 240 and get a "cross X at 11,000' clearance ... develop a mental wag to meet that restriction.

It's a good airplane for busy areas, too ... the airplane will do 200-210 clean with little trouble if you need it for sequence ... just remember to plan time to slow down. I like doing approaches at 130 kts with gear and approach flaps, but going faster isn't too tough. Once you get full flaps in the airplane will slow pretty readily.

Single pilot, don't forget to start your cabin down at top of descent, and keep an eye on your cabin rate. 500FPM works fine most of the time, but if I know any of my pax have a cold, I'll keep it around 300FPM.

Good luck ... if you have any more questions, just holler!

R

 

[Rick1128]

For training and the checkride s/p use the autopilot as much as you can. Get as familiar with it as you can. That is one of the things they like to see. On the four bladed props, auto feather is a go/no-go item. It must be armed for flight.

 

[Wowjack]

Job

I am currently looking for a BE-200 job to transition from instructing. Does anyone know of any positions in the LA area or abroad? I currently fly a CE-340, it's fun, but it pay nothing...I mean I do get a free lunch out of it. If I can handle and know the systems of the 340 are the BE-200 much different?

 

[WileE]

Hey HMR, I've got a couple questions for you, feel free not to answer if you think they are too nosy. I have almost 1500 hours in B-200's and 900 of those PIC. I was wondering what that 135 company is paying for a single pilot captain in the 200 right now. All my time was in the military so I'm not really in the know about "entry" level king air jobs. I've applied to a bunch of king air jobs but besides a couple nibbles I never got any good response. I did do Flight Safety training in a couple different facilities and I can give it a very good recommendation. Very professional and they will give you all the help you should need. Plus their facilities and equipment have always been top notch.

 

[cvsfly]

B200 is certified to 35,000', but soon (2004) most will not be able to use FL290 and above. I don't see RVSM certification being cost effective. Has anyone with a late model, well-equipped B200 looked into RVSM cert.? Any cost projections. I know some of the equippment required such as ADC (Collins one in B200 may need some upgrades?) and Altimeters (do the Collins models in late model B200 meet the spec?) and TCAS (we already have TCAS II - what modifications are required?). The formula for efficient flight planning above is good - I think of it as your trip distance * 100 up to your most efficient altitude usually around 24 - 27,000' - i.e a trip of 250nm * 100 = 25,000'. Round down for appropiate direction of flight, take into consideration wind strength of course and your routing. If you are going into TEB from south of DC they will start sending you down to 15- 11,000' after PXT. 3 blade vs 4 blade make a big difference - big air brake! Most operators with 4 blades will land with 1700 rpm instead of full forward unless of course you are SE, good possibility for MAP or go-around or short feild. Props foward requires a fair TQ adjustment, increases noise considerably and if you chop power early, you will drop like a rock. Having windsheild heat on above 10k (or above freezing level) is usually assumed the best practice if any chance of icing conditions are expected. It is thought that this is better than turning them on a cold soaked glass on on an as needed basis. May contribute to a cracked windsheild? No advantage for bird strikes like some jets with windsheild heat. Also don't forget Engine anti-ice/ice vanes/inertial seperators by +5C IOAT going through visable moisture. Good formula for descents are the 3:1 ratio. I.e. 15,000' to loose = 45nm out from your crossing restriction @ a normal descent rate of 1500'/m. In the sim get familar with your power settings. The 200 will exceed 250/Vmo in descent as well as 200 kts below class C or in class D with out power management. 1100'-lbs clean level will give you about 180 kts for your steep turns, 800 with flaps app for inital appr = 140 kts, 600 Flaps appr gear descending on GS at 130 kts. SE ILS appr = double your power and more for MDA level off. Try to get FSI (more expessive) instead of Simcom - Simcom (MCO) I believe is fixed based (level A? or FTD?) vs Level D for FSI (ATL now, ICT, TOL and LGB) and your checkride will have to be done in the plane (if you are PIC your 135.299 will be in plane anyway). Simuflite might be an option as well (DFW). They now have Level D sim I believe. FSI and Simuflite are more universally recognized with insurance companies in that they may give a better rate with that training vs Simcom.

 

[flywithruss]

Simcom's simulator is fixed/visual, and they are quite a bit less expensive than other options. Simuflite's sim is level C I believe (only difference from D being no daylight visuals) with landings approved. FSI, though I haven't used them for the 200, has a superior reputation. For a new pilot going single pilot in the airplane as you'll be, I'd recommend Simuflite or FSI just because the sims are approved for landings and you'll be able to get a better feel for it than at Simcom.

cvs made some good suggestions with regard to power settings. Get to know target torque settings and you'll always be in the ballpark on airspeed.

Land with your props at 1700RPM if you're not going in to a short runway. The airplane handles a lot better (with the props up, you'll have more drag and the airplane will drop like a rock if you pull the power back, as cvs said above) and it is substantially quieter. Just remember, after touchdown, props up then go to beta/reverse.

In terms of landing, the airplane uses very little runway ... I routinely have ground rolls of 2000' with little or no brakes.

R

 

[Headwind]

Had B-200 initial & recurrent at FSI ( TOL & ICT ) and recurrent several times at Sim-Com (MCO). I prefer Sim-Com and the company pays all cost. The sims are much better a FSI, but I seem to learn more at Sim-Com. At FSI you have a sim instructor and a different ground instructor in a classroom with several other people. At initial my ground instructor new the material, but had never flown a King-Air. At Sim-Com my sim & ground instructor were the same person with work experience in the aircraft. The class is limited to two students and the instructor always gave me advice you only get from years of hands on experience.
If your aircraft is FMS/ EFIS equipped you probably need the FSI initial or you will be lost in the aircraft. The sims at ICT & TOL have EFIS 85 and on the FMS you can request UNS 1-K or -M. If its an older 200 without EFIS you have other choices.
You will love the aircraft. It's very stable with no bad habits. I think it handles more like a big Bonanza than a 172.

 

[cvsfly]

Re: KA200 power settings

.... and flight idle, which is what ya want over the threshold at 50 feet & on speed...then flare, flare, flare...don't give up & you'll get a greaser more often than not.

That's the difference between 3 blade and 4 blade.

 

[Kingairrick]

KA 200

I am in the process of helping a customer buy a 200 to put on our 135 certificate. Flightsafety Lakeland, FL (LAL) has a level D part 142 200 sim. They can do 85% of your 135.299 in the sim. The instructors are all experienced in the 200. I'm going Oct. 7...

cost is $7395.00 plus $1200.00 for the 135 ride.

 

[cvsfly]

I've always been told the Part 142 training centers can't do the .299 line check. Both FSI ATL and ICT said they couldn't. Had to be done with our FSDO. Does the LAL sim have EFIS/FMS?

 

[JetPilot500]

I've always been told the Part 142 training centers can't do the .299 line check. Both FSI ATL and ICT said they couldn't. Had to be done with our FSDO. Does the LAL sim have EFIS/FMS?

That is absolutely true...still. The 135.299 Checkride must be completed in an airplane with a Fed or Check Airman. It must be completed once a year in one of the airplanes the pilot is authorized to fly part 135. I always thought that was one of the dumbest rules.

JetPilot500

 

[Rick1128]

Kingairrick,

I think you really need to talk with some other FSI facilities. I am spending just over $7000 for a Lear recurrent WITH the 135 ride. As for the 135.299 ride there is no 85%. It is either all or nothing.

A King Air sim being a level D doesn't sound right. Those bad boys are very expensive. And the pay back on a turboprop is just too slow. If is is a level A or B which sounds more likely, you get a 85% ride on your 135.293/.297 ride. .299 rides have to be done in an airplane with a FAA Inspector or a check airman.

 

[cvsfly]

FSI definatly has Level D BE-200-B200 sims in ATL and ICT and either Level C or D in TOL and LGB. I don't know about HOU and LAL. I sounds as if the LAL is a level A or B and the 135.293/.297 is limited to 85% in the sim and rest including .299 in the actual aircraft.