Gulfstream 200
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Need help and advise on going Corporate
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reepicheep
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I can understand where the poster of this topic is coming from.... I'm current Part 121 (US Airways), still have a job (for now) but before 9/11 and especially since 9/11 I've made a commitment to positioning myself elsewhere. For someone like me with absolutely no corporate experience at all, it has been difficult to get anywhere. With so many years in the airlines all my contacts are in this arena and without a type and currency it's pretty tough to even get someone to talk to you.
The good news is I live in a pretty lively area for aviation (Southern Cal.) so with persistence I hope to eventually find someone who will give me a shot.
The good news is I live in a pretty lively area for aviation (Southern Cal.) so with persistence I hope to eventually find someone who will give me a shot.
don't give up if you want to fly corporate! There are a ton of jobs out there, the problem is that corporate operators are affraid to hire ex-ailine pilots because they are affraid they will leave again when things turn around. If you are currently employed by the airlines it should be a little easier for you since they will know you left on your own, because you chose to make a change. We hired a guy like that, he was working for a cummuter and wanted out, so our company gave him a chance.
Unfortunately you really do need to network well to get a corporate job. All the other stuff in the begining of this post is a crock! You don't have to have a type (it helps but it's not a must).
You don't have to wash airplanes or do all kinds of office work. You don't have to have 10,000 hours or have an A&P. There are some rotten corporate jobs out there where they make you do all that, but don't go to work for them.
I think one of the biggest problems we have in our industry that people take those rotten jobs when things look tough, and then when it gets better they move on. If pilots would quit taking the jobs for little pay and way too much work, things would change. It has always amazed me that my friends that went to Med school didn't have to worry about working for 25k a year with the hopes of making 150k. They went to school knowing when they finished they would make a great salary and they just had pick a specialty. I don't have one friend that went to law school or med school that is worried about how they will take care of their family next month. But I have all kinds of close friends who are pilots and they have spent the last 10 years working to get to the majors and now they aren't sure if they'll have a job next month, and the thought of going back to work for $35k a year is tough. But we've done it to ourselves, we've always thought of corporate flying as a steping stone and now the world has changed and so has our industry. Let's change it now and make it better for all of us.
All that to say, there are good corporate jobs out there. They don't pay as well as the airlines, but it is getting better. You don't have to have 10,000 hours to get the job, you just have to be a good person with the skills required to do the job. Don't take the job that pays little and requires much. Make those SOB's pay for a professional. If we would all quit taking the bad jobs, the bad ones would go away. Let's take care of each other, and in the end those of us who do this because we love it and it is all we have ever wanted to do will be the only ones left and the pay will have to go up because there will truly be a shortage of pilots.
(I hope that helps?) PM me if you need help, I'll give you any leads I know of.
Unfortunately you really do need to network well to get a corporate job. All the other stuff in the begining of this post is a crock! You don't have to have a type (it helps but it's not a must).
You don't have to wash airplanes or do all kinds of office work. You don't have to have 10,000 hours or have an A&P. There are some rotten corporate jobs out there where they make you do all that, but don't go to work for them.
I think one of the biggest problems we have in our industry that people take those rotten jobs when things look tough, and then when it gets better they move on. If pilots would quit taking the jobs for little pay and way too much work, things would change. It has always amazed me that my friends that went to Med school didn't have to worry about working for 25k a year with the hopes of making 150k. They went to school knowing when they finished they would make a great salary and they just had pick a specialty. I don't have one friend that went to law school or med school that is worried about how they will take care of their family next month. But I have all kinds of close friends who are pilots and they have spent the last 10 years working to get to the majors and now they aren't sure if they'll have a job next month, and the thought of going back to work for $35k a year is tough. But we've done it to ourselves, we've always thought of corporate flying as a steping stone and now the world has changed and so has our industry. Let's change it now and make it better for all of us.
All that to say, there are good corporate jobs out there. They don't pay as well as the airlines, but it is getting better. You don't have to have 10,000 hours to get the job, you just have to be a good person with the skills required to do the job. Don't take the job that pays little and requires much. Make those SOB's pay for a professional. If we would all quit taking the bad jobs, the bad ones would go away. Let's take care of each other, and in the end those of us who do this because we love it and it is all we have ever wanted to do will be the only ones left and the pay will have to go up because there will truly be a shortage of pilots.
(I hope that helps?) PM me if you need help, I'll give you any leads I know of.
CL60
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
- Posts
- 230
Corporates
FlyChicaga,
There are many good corporate operators out here with varying operating practices. Most fortune companies operate utilizing SOP's and adhere to 121 flight and duty time regs. (Among other things). They pay very well depending on the equipment and consider their pilots to be at a level equal to a mid-level executive in the company.
As for a salary range, work your way up to a Challenger, big Falcon, or Gbird and you will make plenty of money, have great bennies, bonuses, expenses, etc... I know of places that start FO's as low as $66K the first year and pay as high as over $200K / year for management pilots. Bonuses can vary greatly. 20% is not unusual but some companies pay much more.
You do not need a type! Legitimate operators don't think twice about sending people out for multiple type ratings the first year if needed. E.g., my first big fortune job was with a company that made a clear profit of over a billion dollars my first year. Think they hesitated when they heard a type rating would cost them $22,000 plus pilot expenses? The operating budget for the department that year was $14 million or so.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are also the lower end non-fortune operators that can't really afford to operate any aircraft. They pay as little as possible and offer little or no bennies at all.
FYI, 70 hours a month / pilot for corporates is pertty rough. If you fly around 40 hours a month, you can pursue a personal life. I fly two or three days a week and am not required to come in when I'm not flying. Most nights weekends and holidays are spent at home and I enjoy an occasional international trip. If you find the right job, it is a great career. Unfortunately, our secret is slipping out and everyone wants in on the action now.
Good luck,
FlyChicaga,
There are many good corporate operators out here with varying operating practices. Most fortune companies operate utilizing SOP's and adhere to 121 flight and duty time regs. (Among other things). They pay very well depending on the equipment and consider their pilots to be at a level equal to a mid-level executive in the company.
As for a salary range, work your way up to a Challenger, big Falcon, or Gbird and you will make plenty of money, have great bennies, bonuses, expenses, etc... I know of places that start FO's as low as $66K the first year and pay as high as over $200K / year for management pilots. Bonuses can vary greatly. 20% is not unusual but some companies pay much more.
You do not need a type! Legitimate operators don't think twice about sending people out for multiple type ratings the first year if needed. E.g., my first big fortune job was with a company that made a clear profit of over a billion dollars my first year. Think they hesitated when they heard a type rating would cost them $22,000 plus pilot expenses? The operating budget for the department that year was $14 million or so.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are also the lower end non-fortune operators that can't really afford to operate any aircraft. They pay as little as possible and offer little or no bennies at all.
FYI, 70 hours a month / pilot for corporates is pertty rough. If you fly around 40 hours a month, you can pursue a personal life. I fly two or three days a week and am not required to come in when I'm not flying. Most nights weekends and holidays are spent at home and I enjoy an occasional international trip. If you find the right job, it is a great career. Unfortunately, our secret is slipping out and everyone wants in on the action now.
Good luck,
Saluki Dawg
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Posts
- 395
Wow!
Look at what I started! I leave on a 4 day trip and come back and find that this thread has really taken on a life of it's own. BTW, thanks for all the replies and PM's. You've all really helped me have a better understanding of the ins and outs of corporate flying. I still haven't made a firm decision yet on what to do. It's hard, especially in the kind of job market we currently find ourselves in to leave a steady 121 flying job, even if the pay and bennies are sub-par. If anyone has any leads on Corporate jobs in Illinois or Texas specifically I would really appreciate a PM with any details you might have. Thanks again for your help it is greatly appreciated!
Look at what I started! I leave on a 4 day trip and come back and find that this thread has really taken on a life of it's own. BTW, thanks for all the replies and PM's. You've all really helped me have a better understanding of the ins and outs of corporate flying. I still haven't made a firm decision yet on what to do. It's hard, especially in the kind of job market we currently find ourselves in to leave a steady 121 flying job, even if the pay and bennies are sub-par. If anyone has any leads on Corporate jobs in Illinois or Texas specifically I would really appreciate a PM with any details you might have. Thanks again for your help it is greatly appreciated!
Sheik_Yer_Booty
Ruler of Kingdom Come!!!
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Posts
- 30
Lot of good info here, many points are made, both sides offered.
In the end it is just a one poster put it, a lifestyle choice.
I just like many I know could have gone to the airlines during the height of the recent hiring boom we saw during the 90’s. I was flying for a smaller corporate op, mostly Lear’s around the USA, nothing super-duper-monstrously-exciting, but I enjoyed it a lot and that’s what counts. I saw many nice and neat places but I also spent the night in some real hell holes shacked up in some godforsaken rattrap trying to sleep over the “boots in the dryer” music or the raucous teenage couple next door.
I made the move from a good corporate operator to a great corporate operator in late 97 and I’ve been here ever since and life is good. Pay is above NBAA standards, equipment is less than 5 years old, we have dedicated in-house maintance and we fly a lot. Some of my buddies want to fly the same line for 28 straight and be home every night.
Me I like not knowing where I’m going until the day before or later and I do not mind wearing a pager or carrying a cell phone. Call me strange…
But we go to some really nice places and I usually stay in the same hotel as the boss. When we lay over for an extended period we are usually, 98% of the time given a time to report back and then cut loose. We average 10 RON’s per month and I agree that is a lot, but I’m single, living the life of a corporate pilot and I love it.
From my paltry experience if you really want to see the world before your old, cantankerous and constantly pissed at management, driving a 767/777/747 for some monster airline, still flying the same ole JFK-LHR 3 times a month then corporate is the way to go.
But having said that, I too have heard of pilots landing a corporate job that appeared good on the surface, but turned out to be the pits. So do a little research into your company before you make that commitment, just as you would any airline you apply for.
Both careers can be fun, just depends on what you want out of a career.
Sheik
In the end it is just a one poster put it, a lifestyle choice.
I just like many I know could have gone to the airlines during the height of the recent hiring boom we saw during the 90’s. I was flying for a smaller corporate op, mostly Lear’s around the USA, nothing super-duper-monstrously-exciting, but I enjoyed it a lot and that’s what counts. I saw many nice and neat places but I also spent the night in some real hell holes shacked up in some godforsaken rattrap trying to sleep over the “boots in the dryer” music or the raucous teenage couple next door.
I made the move from a good corporate operator to a great corporate operator in late 97 and I’ve been here ever since and life is good. Pay is above NBAA standards, equipment is less than 5 years old, we have dedicated in-house maintance and we fly a lot. Some of my buddies want to fly the same line for 28 straight and be home every night.
Me I like not knowing where I’m going until the day before or later and I do not mind wearing a pager or carrying a cell phone. Call me strange…
But we go to some really nice places and I usually stay in the same hotel as the boss. When we lay over for an extended period we are usually, 98% of the time given a time to report back and then cut loose. We average 10 RON’s per month and I agree that is a lot, but I’m single, living the life of a corporate pilot and I love it.
From my paltry experience if you really want to see the world before your old, cantankerous and constantly pissed at management, driving a 767/777/747 for some monster airline, still flying the same ole JFK-LHR 3 times a month then corporate is the way to go.
But having said that, I too have heard of pilots landing a corporate job that appeared good on the surface, but turned out to be the pits. So do a little research into your company before you make that commitment, just as you would any airline you apply for.
Both careers can be fun, just depends on what you want out of a career.
Sheik
Saluki Dawg
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- Jan 16, 2002
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