Need advice. Worried about...

[Mitsipilot]

I fly for a regional carrier in the northeast. The other day we may have been given a crossing restriction at a specific intersection. Needless to say we blew it by several thousand feet. (actually completely forgot about it, if we were even given one. Thought we were pilot's discretion to ALT XXX). The center controller never said anything about it and handed us off to approach as normal. The approach controller simply asked if we were given a crossing restriction and nothing else was said. The approach controller acted as if it was a non event and no loss of seperation or conflict occured. Do I need to worry about this?

Do I even need to file a report? My airline has an approved ASAP program. Do I have to go thru ASAP or does a NASA report do the same thing. Also, how often can you file a NASA report?

Thanks in advance...

 

[RideTheWind]

forgetabowtit

 

[garf12]

Also, how often can you file a NASA report?

Thanks in advance...

You can file them as often as you like, but they can only be used once in every 5 (i think) years for immunity.

 

[profile]

Definitely file one via registered mail (or FedEx it). Never hurts, if nothing comes of it then all you've lost is a few minutes and the postage, but if they do go after you, it will be worth a heck of a lot!

 

[Uncle Sparky]

My initial, gut instinct, would be to " forgetabowtit" the controller didn't make an issue of it. No phone numbers were given, etc. But, the older I've gotten, the more conservative I've become. This.....

Definitely file one via registered mail (or FedEx it). Never hurts, if nothing comes of it then all you've lost is a few minutes and the postage, but if they do go after you, it will be worth a heck of a lot!

......makes a LOT of sense. It's quick and painless(if you don't have a NASA form, just download one). It may seem excessive to some people but at least you're covered.
I would imagine the FAA would transfer such a minor infraction directly to the circular file, if using your "get outta jail free card" privilege prematurely, is your key concern.

 

[vclean]

It's probably not an issue. It seems from the controller's response that there wasn't a separation violation, so nothing should come of it.

Since you missed the crossing by "several thousand feet", I would mail an ASRS. If your POI receives a complaint, the ASRS report will show your proactive attitude.

If your airline has a self-reporting safety program, consider using it as well.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

It is worth a NASA form if you were PIC (SIC is your call). It is a bust of a clearance so they could come after you. Probably will not if the controller didn't make a fuss but you never know.

 

[bafanguy]

The fact that the controller didn't say anything to you about this means nothing. They aren't obligated to say anything. What they are doing behind the scenes may be another matter. File the NASA form. If nothing comes of it, no harm...no foul. I have to agree with Uncle Sparky, "...the older I've gotten...".

 

[IFlyGC]

Mitsi,

If your on an approved ASAP program (and assuming it's similar to ours), you only have to file the paperwork within 30 days of being NOTIFIED of making a mistake. In other words, when you get called in to do the rug dance, go fill out the paperwork then. If ATC had informed you of the mistake then you'll need to have filled it out within 30 days from then.

 

[PacoPollo]

ASAP!!! painless never hurts..

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

If they didn't loose seperation between two planes and he didn't say on the tape "possible pilot deviation" then they can't get you for anything in the future. Do you really think they are gonna archive the tapes and radar tapes for something as trivial as this.

In that case, if you can't remember getting it then its possible that the controller was stepped on while he issued it to you because it doesn't ssound like you heard it issued. Not like your required to read it back but you can always argue that just because he said it doesn't mean that transmission ever hit your airplane.

Relax, controllers really don't care. As long as the planes are seperated legally i wouldn't loose any sleep or blow a Nasa form on this.

 

[Daveman]

Definitely file one via registered mail (or FedEx it). Never hurts, if nothing comes of it then all you've lost is a few minutes and the postage, but if they do go after you, it will be worth a heck of a lot!

Take this advice. I've been there, and though nothing happened it put my mind at ease. Do an internet search and download the form.

 

[avbug]

I'm shocked at the number of pilots who have incorrectly told you to forget about it.

File an ASRS report within 10 days. There is no good reason not to, and some very valid reasons to file the report. Why would anybody not want to file the report in a case such as this??

Do not ever assume that because ATC didn't notify you at the time of a possible deviation, that it is not an issue. You may not be notified at the time, and you may not receive anything at the time regarding a separation issue. I experienced that very thing after entering Denver Center's airspace many years ago, as an F/O. We received nothing until landing, when the tower advised us to contact center, which we did. The separation issue had taken place in SLC center's airspace, and they were talking about a violation.

The matter was resolved, but you can bet I filed a ASRS report. You should also know that the F/O can be violated just as much as the captain...don't ever assume that you're immune because you weren't flying left seat. In fact, violations have been processed against the F/O and not the captain under certain circumstances.

Reporting by someone else does not cover you...and may actually be used against you. A report may not be used against the reporter,but it can certainly be used to gather information which may then be used against you. File your own report; you will enjoy no protection from a report filed by another.

If nothing happened, then so what? You've filed the report, you're out nothing but a few minutes of your time, and you've contributed safety related information to the database. If something does happen, you may offer evidenceof your timely filing at the appropriate moment, and while you will still suffer enforcement action, you won't pay the penalty.

If you've not been notified of any action at this stage, you needn't notify through the ASAP program, though that is still an option. Again, is there any reason not to do so? I cant' think of any.

 

[ArcticFlier]

File the NASA form.

Forget about it my ass............

AF

 

[Axel]

You can file them as often as you like, but they can only be used once in every 5 (i think) years for immunity.

For the record, garf is correct in re: the 5 years, but the use of the term "immunity" might be misleading.

ASRS reports protect you from sanctions attached to a violation. You are still violated you just don't get a license suspension for it.

 

[bobbysamd]

NASA Report

If only for your peace of mind, file a NASA report. Whether or not you need it for immunity, it can never hurt to file a NASA report to CYA.

As an instructor, I filed NASA reports many times. I filed reports if (moronic) students busted altitude while we were on a clearance. I had a private student whom I signed off for a particular route and particular airports. After he came back and told me he landed at a different airport than authorized, after I had finished going through the ceiling, I filed a NASA report. More times than not, NASA returned the ID strip with a polite note thanking me for my report.

File the report. You'll feel better afterwards. In the meantime, fly safe.

 

[TonyC]

The Aviation Safety Reporting Program is designed to "encourage the identification and reporting of deficiencies and discrepancies in the system." The incident you described falls into the category of discrepancy. In the interest of improving aviation safety, file the report.


The FAA, when considering enforcement actions, will take into account, among other things, whether the violation was inadvertent or deliberate, the certificate holder's level of experience and responsibility, and attitude of the violator. Voluntary disclosure under the ASRP would seem to be an indication of a proper attitude.

When you complete the form, use care to complete the "TYPE OF EVENT/SITUATION" portion of the identification strip. "Altitude Restriction" would be better than "Altitude VIOLATION."



Here's a site to browse:NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS)

Here's a direct link to the form (requires Adobe Reader): :NASA ARC 277B (January 1994) GENERAL FORM

 

[Green Banana]

FORGETABOUTIT!!!!!!

Haha

 

[Uncle Sparky]

I don't think it has been addressed yet, someone slap me with a quote if it has but I don't believe the second part of the question has been adressed, officially. What is the statute of limitations on the NASA form, if it is used in your liberation?

 

[Uncle Sparky]

thread hi-jack.......of sorts

Also, how often can you file a NASA report?

oops.....guess I should review more thoroughly. As many times as you want, is the answer.

"How many times can it be used to prevent potential prosecution and
how often?", I guess, would be my questions.

 

[satpak77]

FILE THE REPORT. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

Even if "the controller was cool about it", FAA Quality Assurance at the ATC facilities periodically pulls tapes and reviews them. If a violation is found or suspected, they can send it up the chain for further investigation.

FILE THE REPORT

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

All i know as a controller, and have been told by ATM, Regional Office, and FSDO that unless "possible pilot deviation" is on the tape there is nothing that can be done. The FAA can't give you a straight answer ever but that is the rule I follow and I say it when I need to. The NASA form can't hurt but then next time you really F up, you have nothing to hide behind.


MK