Need advice, Great Lakes, Airnet, or 208

[Jabwmu]

I currently am working at a 135 operator flying a C208 Caravan. Pay is excellent and cost of living is low. I recently have been hired with Airnet and have a classdate in April. I would start off in a multi (Baron) but have to sign a 1 year contract and would take a pay cut while cost of living would go up. Now I just got a call for an interview with Great Lakes Airlines. I'm going to the interview and would expect to get hired (don't mean to sound cocky). Anyways at Great Lakes pay is terrible, cost of living is high, and i would have to sign a 15 month contract (I've heard).

I currently have 1550 total time, 128 multi, and 200 turbine. If you were in my shoes, would you stay at your current 135 operater and wait for something better to come along. Goto Airnet where you'd be able to get about 1000 PIC multi in a yr, or take Great Lakes where upgrade is fast and could get 121 PIC time quickly (if the company is still around)? I'm hoping to get another call by a "better" regional before I goto Airnet for the classdate and also hopeful to hear from Great Lakes before I have to goto Airnet. Any advice would be great. Thanks.

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

IMO opinion youve got to get some multi to move on to greener pastures. So if youre company doesnt have any multi ops then you need to make a move somewhere. AirNet seems to be respectable and with the way things are picking up you could probably serve a one year tour of duty and then move on to a regional of your choice, without going into major debt by moving out to Denver.

 

[propdog]

Hmmmm....a tough one. With the regional airline industry opening up, my advice will be to stay out of contracts. But looks like you can use some more twin time as well. See if any other regionals with better working conditions will offer you an interview. May be you can get a jet job. In the absence of that, getting into Greatlakes and getting a fast upgrade sounds like a good option. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush!!! Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

What means of enforcing the contract do they have?

Good luck getting money from a regional pilot...

I would wait to see what happens with Lakes contract negotiations.

 

[avpro91]

I interviewed with Great mistakes summer of 9/11, got offered a class date in august. Took the job.....mid july, got a call saying the class date had been pushed back indefinetly. So...interviewed with Airnet and got the job there. Good thing too, cause 9/11 happened two weeks later and Great Lakes didn't come calling for another year, at which time I was happily employed at Airnet. It's all about what you want to do...if you want the 121 exp got to GL but pay is like 16K or something. I made 35K my first year at Airnet in the props. It all depends on the run you take ...most are constructed with plenty of overtime, so your pay is a lot more than the starting 23K or whatever it is now. If you have a fifth night (i.e. fly on friday or sunday....usually) thats like and extra 10K right there. As fas as a company...airnet is a great company..they really take care of their employees and its a good place to start for a guy with your time. It's some of the best experience you'll ever get, and probibly the most fun you'll have flying too. Good training and the best mx program I've ever seen. Upgrade to the lear was like 2 years when I left, but I think its back a year and a half or so now. The down side is you have to work nights...thats what got me...it gets old after about a year. As for that caravan thing. Multi pic and turbine multi pic is what you need. caravan time always seems to be put in a class by itself when you go for an interview (turbine..but...its single engine!) anyway, hope this helps. I left airnet after about a year to go to a charter company flying turboprops and lears....but I sure do miss the days of yankin and bankin at three in the morning sometimes.

 

[Jabwmu]

Wow, thanks for all the quick responses. I like propdogs quote "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush!!! " In response to Dirty Sanchez (sweet name), Airnet and Lakes' contracts are not prorated. Airnet is $7000 but hear the contract is non-binding and people get out of it, but the company won't give you a good recommendation and employment down the road is not an option. I'm unsure about lakes and their contract except that its for 15 months.

Also, I've read rumors that Great Lakes is going to be gone in the near future. I'd like to believe the cockroach and Lakes theory but you never know now days. Right now I'm leaning towards Great Lakes if only for the beech 1900 multi-time, although living would be rough, and the hopeful quick upgrade. Airnet sounds like an excellent place to be, but don't know if 135 multi is as appealing as 121 SIC. My goal is eventually a major (like most everyone). Thanks again.

 

[8HourPilot]

Either way J, you're gonna do fine.

 

[Future SNA]

The beautiful thing about the aviation industry is that typically, you're hired for your next job before they've even called your past employers, I wouldn't worry about training contracts, broke my share, and have not had any bad effects as of yet.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

The beautiful thing about the aviation industry is that typically, you're hired for your next job before they've even called your past employers, I wouldn't worry about training contracts, broke my share, and have not had any bad effects as of yet.

That's some bad advice. I know of people getting let go just before a 121 ground school because of a PRIA report. In one case the PRIA report was bogus and the individual was able to start ground school but he lost 3 months of seniority while the mess was cleared up (which required an attorney.) I wouldn't sign any contract with the intent of breaking it. You might get on with a 135 outfit but it could hurt you when trying to get on with a good 121 carrier.

If I were you I'd be looking at Airnet. Stability means a lot. With the new pax weights and possible cuts to EAS I'm not convinced Lakes will be around in a year or two. That's just my opinion and I could be totally wrong.

Good luck to you.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Just to throw my thoughts out.....

Take the Airnet job. Twin PIC will open more doors than twin SIC. If you can fly a cabin piston then you will be able to fly any turboprop or jet. The 400 series Cessna and PA31 are way more complicated than any jet-A burner.

Great Lakes is AS@! No way do you want to go there. Get your time up to 2500 and 1000 multi and get a real job with a real regional like Comair, ASA, COEX, or SKW (Sorry if I left any good ones out). Just don't work for Lakes, Colgan, Commut Air or Mesa.

I turned down a Mesa job (on the advice of one of their CAPT's) to fly a corporate navajo. I make what a 5 year B1900 CAPT makes at Mesa plus benefits and will build my time on this job to move into a good regional (I know, that is a relative term) like the one's posted above.

Also, look at the opportunity for jet PIC at Airnet. I would think your final goal would not be a regional but a major. PIC jet is PIC jet. If you have better working conditions and pay at Airnet than at a regional then why even bother with the regionals. Last I heard the openings at Airnet in the jet were due to guys moving to Southwest.

Just my 1.45 million pesos though

 

[Jabwmu]

"With the new pax weights and possible cuts to EAS I'm not convinced Lakes will be around in a year or two." This is probably a stupid question, but what or who is EAS?

I agree with you Benjamin. I wouldn't goto Airnet or Lakes with an intent to break the contract. You never know when you might want to go back to the company after you've been furloughed or something. Also, burning bridges can't be good practice when everybody seems to know everybody.

8hourpilot, that C-560 under aircraft flown looks pretty bad as(s)

 

[HAZ-MAT]

A biased opinion.. Go with AirNet. Stability, great Mx, aircraft, and a good bunch of people. However, you're complaining about being in a Caravan?! Well, lets say you take that class, and they're two Van runs... and you get one.. You wont be building up that multi time, but if you wait a while the multi time will come via the Lear. Which to give you an idea... I've been here 15 months and was just awarded a Lear slot.
I've said this before, as well as others. Its all about what you want out of your job.

 

[Jabwmu]

I don't think I did complain about the caravan but maybe I came across that way. The caravan is awesome, very easy to fly and can get away with alot. No complaints about the caravan except that its not a career builder, just total time and turbine (kinda). I have thought about the chance of being lock based in a caravan with airnet. This isn't what I want, a lateral move for a year, but like you said in a year you're still with a good company. It's a chance, but I can live with it if it happens.

Great Lakes isn't my ideal airline job by any means. However, the main reason to go would be to get the 121 experience and quick upgrade which would proally lead towards a major sooner than later. Thats why this is such a hard choice. Excellent company with airnet (135) and possibilities later down the road. I agree with DAS at 10's comments about avoiding Lakes, Mesa, and other regionals like them. However, I think staying a year at either place then going to a comair, asa, skywest, etc. would put me back a few years of going to a major. I think most want 500 hrs. 121 PIC time. at a minimum.

Everything is telling me to stick with Airnet and enjoy the ride, but Lakes is enticing enough to make me second guess.

Also, theres some nice avatars on this post

 

[vclean]

Sounds like you made your decision already. Just don't start complaining later about how bad it is at 'Lakes. Quality of life may not mean much now, but after being abused at 'Lakes, you will second guess your choice.

 

[AAPilot]

I would go with Airnet. The route I took was Us Check, Commuter, and AA....but if I were you I would get on the jet asap, get the type and start building the PIC Jet time asap...this will get you to a major alot quicker then going to Lakes and having to wait to upgrade for PIC(if their even around).

BTW if you end up going to Lakes I think you'll leave within the first year for another regional carrier which will delay adding PIC on your resume. This will be mandatory when the Majors all start hiring again. Good luck!

 

[Jabwmu]

I'm already complaining about quality of life and I haven't even interviewed at Lakes yet. Just kidding. Airnet seems to be the safest, most popular, and perhaps smartest move. I still have a few weeks to decide. Thats why I posted. I've been a member for almost two years but have never posted until this week. I'm aware of the PFT and Mesa stuff going around. Thats why I posted about Great Lakes (their history). Take the good with the bad, make the best decision. I appreciate everyones advice.

 

[wil]

If you have 1000 turbine then go to Airnet. Otherwise, I would stay put till then. Good luck-

 

[Future SNA]

I wouldn't sign any contract with the intent of breaking it.

No where did I say you should go someplace with a training contract, with the intent to break it? What I said was, I have broken several training contracts, in order to advance my career SIGNIFICANTLY, and I have had no negative reprocussions.

As far as I know, employers don't typically have you sign consent to background searches until AFTER they've essentially already hired you. My current 121 job, which I'm in training for now, actually NEW I was going to give my previous 135 employer only 4 days notice, and walk on a contract, and the only thing they said about it was be sure and let us know if you can't attend ground school, and we will put you in the next class, and that was just because they asked what my employer would think leaving with 4 days notice, and I told them the truth flat out. Let's be honest, if your honest in your interview, and have a positive attitude, and are personable, things like this........"probably" won't hurt you.

Pre 9/11 stuff like this was commonplace, hell, didn't I read someplace that companies were telling guys to go through USA JET's training program, quit, and then they'd hire them? Yeah, that's wrong, but nothing like what I've done.

Besides, one 135 company was crap anyways, and the next was actually GREAT, but, career advancement takes presidence over things sometimes. I still stand-by my statement of "breaking a contract isn't always a bad thing," but I also never said to go into a job planning to do this. I got laid off from a job with, all of about 4 hours notice, so tell me how what happened to me is right, and what I did was wrong? MOST employers care about one thing, and one thing only, themselves......135 speaking, I never thought this way, till it bit me from behind. I, understand they're great companies out there, my previous job was one of them, but unfortunately I found out the hard way the others weren't as great. Odd thing is, even the companies I've quit, I GUARANTEE that would be the only thing they had bad to say about me, one even told my previous employer I did a great job there, but that they were pissed I left on a whim. What can you do?

 

[propjockey]

Lakes isn't so bad

Seems like most of the people who bash Lakes have never worked there. Lakes is and always has been a great springboard to bigger and better things. When the majors were hiring, it was a virtual pipeline to United, FedEx, American, Delta, etc.

Even in today's airline economy, people are getting great jobs out of Lakes (myself included). I have many friends who have moved on already, as well.

It was a great place to get my start. And there aren't too many other regionals, if any, where I could have been awarded upgrade as soon as I hit 1500 hours.

Yes, pay and QOL suck, but nobody plans to stay there. 15 months is not as long as you think. Get your 1000 121 turbine PIC there and move on.

And I'll believe that Lakes is going out of business when I see it.

 

[starchkr]

wil...
HUH?!?!?!?!? What the heck does that mean..."If you have 1000 turbine then go to Airnet." What does 100 turbine have to do with going to Airnet?

Anyway, i too am biased, but i have seen the light and know that coming to airnet was a great choice. Yes it took me 3 years to upgrade to the lear(thanks to 9/11 and the fact that i was VERY picky as to which one to take), but it has been coming down fast. If i understand the word here lately, a 13 month pilot just got the SAT lear F/O. Yep, 1 year and 1 month to the lear.

LEts also tackle the come to airnet and do your year then leave for the regionals issue... WHY?!?!?!?! That's crazy if you ask me! With the upgrades coming down, and the fact that our Lear Capts go straight to the majors, why would you want to take a step backwards for the regionals. But, to each his own. So far this year, 1 capt has taken a SWA job, while others have moved to ATA. If things go as they should, probably at least 10-12 more should be gone to SWA by years end, with others leaving for other major venues. So see, you do not have to fly for the regionals to get a job at the majors.

Also, if you happen to get a Van spot at Airnet, that time counts just as well as multi time for your upgrade into the lear. That means, if you were to build no more multi time until the lear, then you will only have built turbine multi with airnet.

Good luck