NDB or Compass Locator on ILS

[aviator1x1]

I understand that you can use the Compass Locator or the NDB
as a substitute for the outer marker during the ILS approach. I just want to make sure that if the NDB or the Compass Locator is
out, the ILS approach is not authorized. Is this true?
Part 91 is a little vague. What is the correct answer and please
refer to reg or AIM.
Thank you.

 

[JB74]

Unless radar or dme is being used and specified in the approach.

1-1-9. Instrument Landing System (ILS)

4. Compass locators located at the Outer Marker (OM) or Middle Marker (MM) may be substituted for marker beacons. DME, when specified in the procedure, may be substituted for the OM.

Couldn't find anyting on radar yet....still looking.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
PAR/ASR can be substituted for the OM or LOM.

regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Aim Table 1-1-8

GPS with current database can be used in lieu of ADF or DME.

 

[The_Russian]

JB74 said it right. Also, Kaman is correct for ILS approaches in a radar environment. However, GPS can in no way substitute a fix or navaid on a ground based navaid IAP.

Sorry not enough time to elaborate!

Good Luck!

 

[100LL... Again!]

First of all, the NDB/MKR Bcn/DME fix are NOT required EVER to fly the ILS, unless:

DME is in the procedure title e.g.: ILS/DME

or

A procedure note states that the DME or ADF is required.
If it is required, but not in the procedure title, it is because it s necessary to have it to fly the miss.


To repeat, go ahead and fly the ILS with no beacon, no dme, and no adf, unless one ofthe above conditions is stated.

 

[The_Russian]

First of all....

If the NDB/MKR/DME is not present then you have to have radar. So do not go ahead just yet. You have to have a way to join the Final Approach Course in the event of a comms failure. If you dont have radar or comms, you cant shoot an ILS with a GS LOC and ALS only.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You can if the is a NoPT route from a VOR that joins the final approach course.

In the initial issue, I assumed the person was referring to a radar vectored approach.

My point was that GS intercept is the only requirement for flying an ILS in regard to establishing where the FAF is.

 

[The_Russian]

He didnt specify radar. I think we've been cheated! Good point.

 

[JB74]

So what happens in this scenario:


edit: Type in FLL, then scroll down to ILS 27R

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/SouthEast/FLL_ir27R.pdf

Now, in this approach it doesn't specify a DME nor radar requirement, and it doesn't have an OM. Yet the app fixes are identified by DME fixes (as well as VOR int's). My question is (and probably the original posters point also) say you get "radar service lost", are you able to substitute the VKZ R-023 as your FAF in lieu of the dme fix (assuming you don't have DME)?

Hope this makes sense.