haulingthemail
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Nascar
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Count Dracula
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coloneldan
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The best thing I can recommend is get known around Concord/Statesville NC. Take a charter job there if you have to and hang around the airports. Get known by the pilots and let them know you are looking.
There are a few things you should know first though. Most of the NASCAR pilots are retired or furloughed airline pilots. The only GA job they have ever held is for the NASCAR people. They didn't have anyone to teach them what is required for a GA flight department. If there is fuel, beer and ice on board, and you can look at the airplane from across the ramp and it looks like all the big pieces are on, they're ready to go. A takeoff at 10 to 20% over gross weight is not unusual. In fact, it is the norm. It is normal to load a B200 with a pilot, 11 pitcrew guys, 3 or 400 pounds of bags and boxes of spare parts, then takeoff with full fuel so you don't have to buy fuel on the road. (Roughly 2500 pounds over gross.) Stuff like this happens so often that the pilots who fly the NASCAR people become know as "one of those NASCAR pilots." Once you get that title, few people in the area will hire you, other than another NASCAR bunch. That means low pay and low or no benefits are the norm. Also, you better like sharing your motel room with your co-pilot.
Mondays are usually slow. Tuesdays sometimes you fly to a test or take a driver to an appearance. Wednesday is just like Tuesday. Thursday you will take the aforementioned over-load to the track. Friday you either stay all day or you may run back to Charlotte to get parts. Same for Saturday, except you will end the day in Charlotte, or where ever you are based. Sunday morning, about 05:00 you will depart with the aforementioned over-load again. Sunday afternoon you will wait in line for hours to takeoff with the same bunch that you brought in earlier in the morning. Depending on the airline and race schedule, you may go back to the track to pick up another load to go home with. Either way, you're guaranteed a 16 to 18 hour day. To give you an idea about how the departures are after a race, the last time I left Hampton GA, (The airport at the track in Atlanta.) I was in a Lear 25. From the time I started keeping track of how long I waited, until I tookoff was 1 hour and 47 minutes. I started one engine and got in line, then I saw that the line I was in wasn't moving so I shut back down. I didn't restart until the line was moving and I didn't start the second engine until I was number 3. By the time I got to be number 1 for departure I had burned almost 120 gallons of fuel. That wasn't the worst experience either.
If you fly for one of the drivers instead of a team, the schedule is a little different. Normally there is a team meating on Monday so you don't fly. Tuesday is tests and appearances, same for Wednesday. Thursday you go the the track. Sometimes there are other races or appearances on Friday and Saturday, so you fly then. Sunday there is leaving the track to deal with. Plus, you get to share the room again. All in all, flying for a driver is better.....sometimes. Some of them want you to feed the horses, bail the hay, change the oil in the boat, work in the Busch shop, etc... when you aren't flying. If you say you worked all last week, they say, you didn't fly on Monday, and on Friday and Saturday all you did was sit in the motel room or hang out at the track. What do you mean you want some time off?!? These guys are just rednecks with money. That makes them arrogant, obnoxus, and a general pain in the a$$. (And it's getting late, I can't spell any more.)
Having said all that, I will say that there are exceptions to the rules. There are some good pilots, good owners, and good drivers. There are a couple of drivers who I flew for that I would fly for again in a heartbeat. I had a corporate job in Hickory for a while. When the NASCAR guys were starting to buy Lears, I trained some of their pilots. And I flew along with them until they got enough time to get insurance. When I started, I thought it would be a GREAT job. It didn't take long to realize I didn't want anything to do with it.....with a couple of exceptions.
I know you still want to do it. I did too. I heard all this and did it anyway. I just didn't want you to go into it blind. Good luck.
I just thought of one thing you might find funny. There is a Lear 25 that I have flown with 4 different N numbers, under 3 different owners, all over the space of a year.
There are a few things you should know first though. Most of the NASCAR pilots are retired or furloughed airline pilots. The only GA job they have ever held is for the NASCAR people. They didn't have anyone to teach them what is required for a GA flight department. If there is fuel, beer and ice on board, and you can look at the airplane from across the ramp and it looks like all the big pieces are on, they're ready to go. A takeoff at 10 to 20% over gross weight is not unusual. In fact, it is the norm. It is normal to load a B200 with a pilot, 11 pitcrew guys, 3 or 400 pounds of bags and boxes of spare parts, then takeoff with full fuel so you don't have to buy fuel on the road. (Roughly 2500 pounds over gross.) Stuff like this happens so often that the pilots who fly the NASCAR people become know as "one of those NASCAR pilots." Once you get that title, few people in the area will hire you, other than another NASCAR bunch. That means low pay and low or no benefits are the norm. Also, you better like sharing your motel room with your co-pilot.
Mondays are usually slow. Tuesdays sometimes you fly to a test or take a driver to an appearance. Wednesday is just like Tuesday. Thursday you will take the aforementioned over-load to the track. Friday you either stay all day or you may run back to Charlotte to get parts. Same for Saturday, except you will end the day in Charlotte, or where ever you are based. Sunday morning, about 05:00 you will depart with the aforementioned over-load again. Sunday afternoon you will wait in line for hours to takeoff with the same bunch that you brought in earlier in the morning. Depending on the airline and race schedule, you may go back to the track to pick up another load to go home with. Either way, you're guaranteed a 16 to 18 hour day. To give you an idea about how the departures are after a race, the last time I left Hampton GA, (The airport at the track in Atlanta.) I was in a Lear 25. From the time I started keeping track of how long I waited, until I tookoff was 1 hour and 47 minutes. I started one engine and got in line, then I saw that the line I was in wasn't moving so I shut back down. I didn't restart until the line was moving and I didn't start the second engine until I was number 3. By the time I got to be number 1 for departure I had burned almost 120 gallons of fuel. That wasn't the worst experience either.
If you fly for one of the drivers instead of a team, the schedule is a little different. Normally there is a team meating on Monday so you don't fly. Tuesday is tests and appearances, same for Wednesday. Thursday you go the the track. Sometimes there are other races or appearances on Friday and Saturday, so you fly then. Sunday there is leaving the track to deal with. Plus, you get to share the room again. All in all, flying for a driver is better.....sometimes. Some of them want you to feed the horses, bail the hay, change the oil in the boat, work in the Busch shop, etc... when you aren't flying. If you say you worked all last week, they say, you didn't fly on Monday, and on Friday and Saturday all you did was sit in the motel room or hang out at the track. What do you mean you want some time off?!? These guys are just rednecks with money. That makes them arrogant, obnoxus, and a general pain in the a$$. (And it's getting late, I can't spell any more.)
Having said all that, I will say that there are exceptions to the rules. There are some good pilots, good owners, and good drivers. There are a couple of drivers who I flew for that I would fly for again in a heartbeat. I had a corporate job in Hickory for a while. When the NASCAR guys were starting to buy Lears, I trained some of their pilots. And I flew along with them until they got enough time to get insurance. When I started, I thought it would be a GREAT job. It didn't take long to realize I didn't want anything to do with it.....with a couple of exceptions.
I know you still want to do it. I did too. I heard all this and did it anyway. I just didn't want you to go into it blind. Good luck.
I just thought of one thing you might find funny. There is a Lear 25 that I have flown with 4 different N numbers, under 3 different owners, all over the space of a year.
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coloneldan
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haulingthemail
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Thanks for all the info. I didn't know what it was like. I had the impression that it would be better, but I guess there is always an exception. I've flown for the commuters and now for a nice freight company, flying big planes. I don't want to leave but Nascar is a big part of my life and I think I would leave if a flying job came my way, or so I think I would or would have.
coloneldan
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I definately wouldn't leave a good job to go to NASCAR.
I thought of another "perk" of the job. If you want to see the races, forget about it. You will have to record them and watch them on Monday. On raceday, you will be standing around with 200 or so other pilots in an FBO with 15 chairs and not enough airconditioning.
I thought of another "perk" of the job. If you want to see the races, forget about it. You will have to record them and watch them on Monday. On raceday, you will be standing around with 200 or so other pilots in an FBO with 15 chairs and not enough airconditioning.
haulingthemail
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Count Dracula
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I have flown for two of the top teams in this business and am currently full-time for one. If you can find a position with a top fortune 500 flight department I wouldn't pass it by. On the other hand, I am with a team that I believe gives you the better QOL than the other teams. I have made more money at the other team, but my QOL was miserable so I switched.
You do have better job security with a team versus a driver. There are only about 3 drivers that I would consider working for in this business and only as their chief pilot where I would make all the decisions when it comes to operating the airplane. Non negotiable. The good drivers are the ones who put their absolute trust in you and will never undermine your decisions. The other major problem in this business is hiring a co-capt, co-pilot who will back-stab you without blinking an eye. My recommendation to that is find a retired pilot who you can absolutely trust, that has a comfy retirement and only wants to keep his hand it for the love of flying. Otherwise, you need to use a large rotation of contract pilots you can trust. I have heard stories from guys who were with a driver for 10-15 years and some joker he hired 6 months ago is trying to get him fired by talking to his manager or attorney about how the guy has been screwing him or unsafe. This wasn't the case by any means. They were loyal people who hired the wrong person.
Coloneldan has hit on a lot of the subjects correctly, but the safety and traffic flow have been improved considerably the past ten years due to larger aircraft and more professional people on the circuit. A lot of what he said in his post has been corrected, but you have a handful of teams and drivers that still operate as he described. I would stay particularly away from the highly visible team in Statesville at all costs. If you send me your email address, I can steer you in the right direction.
Like I said, it's not the greatest job, but I've been at a lot worse. The other problem you will run into is the fact that the aviation managers and chief pilots have been in their positions for some time (thru attrition) and the "hillbilly redneck effect" or the "plantation mentality" is still present with some, not all teams. It's getting better due to the airline hiring dropoff and better educated and professional people are staying longer to make it a career. Hope this helps......
You do have better job security with a team versus a driver. There are only about 3 drivers that I would consider working for in this business and only as their chief pilot where I would make all the decisions when it comes to operating the airplane. Non negotiable. The good drivers are the ones who put their absolute trust in you and will never undermine your decisions. The other major problem in this business is hiring a co-capt, co-pilot who will back-stab you without blinking an eye. My recommendation to that is find a retired pilot who you can absolutely trust, that has a comfy retirement and only wants to keep his hand it for the love of flying. Otherwise, you need to use a large rotation of contract pilots you can trust. I have heard stories from guys who were with a driver for 10-15 years and some joker he hired 6 months ago is trying to get him fired by talking to his manager or attorney about how the guy has been screwing him or unsafe. This wasn't the case by any means. They were loyal people who hired the wrong person.
Coloneldan has hit on a lot of the subjects correctly, but the safety and traffic flow have been improved considerably the past ten years due to larger aircraft and more professional people on the circuit. A lot of what he said in his post has been corrected, but you have a handful of teams and drivers that still operate as he described. I would stay particularly away from the highly visible team in Statesville at all costs. If you send me your email address, I can steer you in the right direction.
Like I said, it's not the greatest job, but I've been at a lot worse. The other problem you will run into is the fact that the aviation managers and chief pilots have been in their positions for some time (thru attrition) and the "hillbilly redneck effect" or the "plantation mentality" is still present with some, not all teams. It's getting better due to the airline hiring dropoff and better educated and professional people are staying longer to make it a career. Hope this helps......
haulingthemail
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coloneldan
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Hey Contrails, I'm glad to hear things are changing. I know there are some really good, professional operations out there. It's good to hear there are more of them than there used to be. My experience dates back to the 95 to about 98 area. And, I did work for that "Highly visible team in Statesville" for a short time. A VERY short time.
Count Dracula
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StarHustler
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I fly part time on a 'per day rate' contract basis for several teams. One Busch team, 2 ARCA teams, and a Hooters Pro Cup team. I enjoy it on a part time basis and my Full time flying job allows me this freedom. The extra money is very nice. However, I would NEVER consider leaving my full time flying job to fly full time for the Race teams (one has offered). It would be a major downgrade in pay and quality of life.
haulingthemail
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coloneldan
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Hey Contrails, No I left NC in 98 and went to Alabama. I'm in Texas now. Does the fearless leader at SVH still have the initials MC? He is the reason I worked there for a VERY short time. He had a unique way with the truth concerning the owner, my options and the operation in general.
Without being to specific, can you give me a hint about who you are with? I have an idea by looking at your ratings.
Without being to specific, can you give me a hint about who you are with? I have an idea by looking at your ratings.
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StarHustler
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I knew a guy recently that got hired by that bunch out of SVH, he resigned his current flying job and went out for training out at Flight Safety in Long Beach for the EMB-120. After the first week of training the C.P. told him that they decided that they didn't need him after all and that was it. He was then without a full time flying job.
To answer the part time question. For me, the way it works is, they own the plane and call me when they need me. It is usually once per week and I get a check at the end of the day. Pretty sweet.
To answer the part time question. For me, the way it works is, they own the plane and call me when they need me. It is usually once per week and I get a check at the end of the day. Pretty sweet.
Groundpounder
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