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multi training vs safety pilot

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RFtech

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Posts
157
Aldassy wrote:

“If you have not started your Instrument stuff yet, I would recommend getting your Multi done now. Get your instrument rating and commercial rating in the twin. You will have 100 hours of twin time when you graduate, and won't be gouging out the eye's of the other MEI's at your flight school for multi time as a f;ight instructor.
As for those of you who would say it costs too much, look at the reward. Lets say you are planning on spending $150 an hour for dual instruction in a 172 for your instrument and commercial. Then say you could rent the twin at $200. Effectively you are paying $50/hr for twin time you will need to buy anyways. The $150 you are spending for the 172 is already a sunk cost, you need to spend that money to get the rating. So if you add $5000 to the bottom line of your total training, you will get 100 hours of ME time. You actually get to touch the controls, no saftey pilot time. Thats a better bargian than you can get at other places.
If you look at getting your multi later, you will have to spend that $200/hr for lets say 20 hours. You are looking at $4000 for a add-on rating and only 20 hours of ME time. So for the difference of $1000 you can be sitting on 80 more hours of ME time.
Some of you may argue that the prices and estimated hours might be off, but trust me, when you get your multi first, the multi time will be cheaper in the long run.”

Bobby wrote:

Multi v. single
“If you can swing the extra bread somehow, do what you propose in the Duchess. I realize it costs more, but you could have a good 50 to 100 hours of multi PIC under your belt when you finish. Once again, consider getting your initial instructor ratings in the multi.

Once again, plenty of people wait to get their multis and are successful. But I feel that doing Instrument and Commercial in the multi is the better way in the long run.

I appreciate aldassy's comment about MEI eye-gouging for multi time. I'll tell you something, though, the multi time eye-gouging never ends, no matter how much multi time you have! It might end if you get on with a commuter, freight, 135, etc. that operates multis.”

Just for the sake of argument…

If one were too chose this route. What is the difference between 70-100 multi hrs that are dual received vs 100 hrs of the safety pilot deal (50 under the hood/50 as safety pilot)?

How will future employers look at it? If you are flying under the safety pilot loophole with another low experience pilot would you have more responsibility than flying with a MEI?

I don’t know?? I am just trying to play the devils advocate, please don’t flame me…
 
Safety pilot time

Although multi time doesn't grow on tree and the eye-gouging exists for every .1 of it, my 2¢s' worth is that too much of any safety pilot time is heavily discounted. The dual time at least serves a legitimate purpose, even if it is PIC and dual received. That's why I like the idea of building up multi PIC while earning Commercial-Instrument, and then initial CFI as an MEI and/or CFI-I.

Just for the sake of this discussion, there was a flight school in Denver called Enterprise Airline Academy. I read where it trained all students initially as multi drivers. This school apparently was successful for a time during the height of the last hiring boom, placing grads at Lakes. Interesting, though I'd think that soloing students in multis would be stressful.
 
Since I am on the outside looking in as far as the regionals are concerned, I can only tell you what I think, not what HR people think.
I did what I recommended to alaksaairlines. I got my multi first and went after all my other ratings. Since becoming an MEI, I've had a few good students and consequently my multi-time is better than most at my flight school.
I don't like logging safety pilot time. I don't touch the controls. While I am gaining valuable experience, I feel like it is watching somebody else drive to make sure they don't run red lights. I know some HR departments have different feelings on this issue and I won't opine about that.
More later, gotta go.
 
OK, I'm back. The only other thing I wanted to say was that if you do your training in the multi, you will touch the controls the whole time. All of it is logged as PIC.
If you do a multi-time-building program, you will spend about the same amount of money, only get your hands on the controls 50% of the time, and have a potential HR question you might have to hurdle when you get an interview.
I'm biased though, and like I said earlier, I'm not on an interview board so I don't know if this is even worth .02.
But as an MEI, I guess most of my time is essentially saftey pilot time anyway.
 
Small clarification

aldassy said:
f you do your training in the multi, you will touch the controls the whole time. All of it is logged as PIC . . . .
Except for the first several hours while you're working on your Private Multi rating. Until you're rated it counts as dual received, multi, and whatever else. You cannot log it as PIC until you're rated.

If one applies himself/herself, one can earn a multi in ten-twelve hours max. The multi course is primarily procedures.
 
Safety pilot time

I think some safety pilot time can be a very valuable experience.

I got most of my multi experience up to 100 hours via a Crew Resource Management type of ME safety pilot program. It is set up just like the airlines (pilot flying/pilot not flying) the so called safety pilot really becomes the first officer. Until I really got the gist of how to work together and become efficient in the cockpit, being the F/O was really the hardest job. Having to set up, run the checklists and do all the radio work was not as easy as it would seem, especially in the LA basin. I think that experience helped me considerably in my Saab 340 sim sessions though! Not to mention, it was much cheaper than renting outright and I got a bigger airplane, than say a BE76, for less cost. In 2000, it was $80/hr (per pilot in each crew) for a Piper Aztec. The prices may have gone up a bit, but they still offer 100 hour blocks for $8900. I flew with Lenair Aviation out of SNA. A good experience for a good price in my book. :D

PS $150 for dual in a C172???? :eek: UGTBSM! It's about $95-100 at my airport ($65 aircraft & $30 CFI )and I thought that was expensive!
 
Sorry, Bobbysamd I should have said almost all time will be logged PIC. I almost know what I am talking about.
Av8trxx, I know $150/hr in a C172 might be a little excessive, but where I'm from ( the land of the Microsofties) people will gladly pay the rate. But in their defense, all our aircraft have IFR certified GPS and autopilots. No old beaters anywhere in the fleet. At any rate, the economics of doing your multi first will still work.
Crew time is valuable. I completely agree with you. A buddy of mine just got hired by a regoinal and he is telling me the biggest thing he has to get used to is working with somebody else. However flying around in a Duchess, working a two pilot crew can get old unless you are pulling engines left and right.
My slight beef was with safety pilot time.
 
Last edited:
C-172 dual rates

$150/hour dual for a 172 is outrageous!

I checked it out in Denver; it is about $100 ($65/hour for the airplane; $35/hour for the instructor). I about fell off my chair. But I guess that is par these days.

In 1982 I paid $50/hour dual for a 172; $35/hour for the airplane; $15/hour for my instructor. He owned his own airplane; after a while he charged me only for airplane time.
 

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