Mr. B-19

[B19 Flyer]

Funny that all of the other Fracs doing the same business for the same type of people can be hiring and growing, but Options can't? If they hadn't been throwing away customers with poor response to service issues, might it not have reached this level? And what level is it really? Their current leader has said in various Cleveland pubs that the economy is bad and growth is stagnant, and he needs tax breaks to survive, and in others is quoted as projecting big growth. Which way is it, really??
KR may have been perceived as incompetent at the end, because he couldn't show a profit while providing the service level that was expected. But the man had an idea of how something could be done, and did it well enough to grow a company from the ground up to pretty epic proportions. Under the newcomers, it has dwindled. Why?

A Union is the on property. Business can't grow because there is no way of knowing how expensive the contract will be. Normal reaction when a new union on company. RS publically stated it during the NJ negotiations. Too bad FLOPS doesn't have the resources of NJ.

I said it two years ago, and it is happened just as I said it would. No news here.

I don't believe that the current state of conditions is "do you want to work for a union carrier" in this instance. The union is involved to try to stem the losses of working conditions that is being experienced. Those who would try to change that are either not accepted into management, or do not last there because their viewpoints don't match the top brass. The only ones who are still there in management positions are those who "went along with the program".That program doesn't look too successful right now.

The union wants it's own agenda. It usually doesn't match the vision of the company. Nothing new for news here either.

That's why I repeatedly state, match your career to the job you want, don't go trying to match the job to what you envision. One third of the pilots didn't want the union. Those pilots matched their needs to the company. Just because you screwed up, doesn't mean that they should be forced to do what you want.


What a crock of crap! You seem to want to blame the pilots for putting a plane into maintenance by claiming he just wants to go home??? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

It happens ALL THE TIME. I never saw it happen until I worked for a fractional. It never ceased to amaze me how many pilots would take advantage of the fact that their home base just happened to be where the maintainance was.

How much coincidence has to fall into place for the right plane, with the right crew, ends up at a maintenance base anywhere near EITHER pilot's home??

You may not have heard about managers requesting planes be flown broken, but I experienced it there. Much of it was due to not understanding how an MEL reads, which is even more pathetic from someone in charge. All you have then is a battle of wits with an unarmed person. A squawk that I stood my ground on after a 20 minute phone conversation got another pilot into a bad situation in another airplane because he caved to pressure. It happens. Inspections that you KNOW can't be done in a 10 hour layover were done and signed.

So it's OK to do it to maintain a schedule?? That's not acceptable to any FAA person I've met, and you want flight crews to lay their license on the line for it? You first, not me. Ever.

Didn't say that... and I'm not going to reiterate something I wrote before.


Sorry again for taking up so much space. This post really got me, since now it not only is anti-union, but more anti-pilot than all of the previous. With all due respect to B19, I had to shorten my post to get the board to take my response, so I deleted the anti-union verbiage we've all heard before. No disrespect intended, you're entitled to your opinion, just had to shorten without losing the intent.


You need to hang around the dispatch, the chief pilot's office or the DO's office more often to see the reality of day to day operations.



I keep maintaining how I have no dog in this fight, since I'm out now, but I have friends on the inside that deserve better.
Regards,
Chris

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[B19 Flyer]

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Seems as though if there is all this turmoil, numerous losses of pilots and mechanics because of dssatisfaction with job conditions, etc., that management has some issues.

During union turmoil everybody is ready to bail.

Managing is a lot tougher than it seems and it’s not easy to get experienced management ay smaller carriers such as FLOPS. The risk of organizing to fix "bad management" far outweighs a job change. Why do I say that is the next question. It’s more about job fit than it is management. Depending on how old you are, you’ll have say… 30 years at an air carrier. If today the union drive begins, you’ll have at least a years between turning in the cards and the sanctioning of a union. After that, you’ll have another 3 years to put the CBA into place and another year before the CBA is implemented if all goes well. Oh, and just because the contract is implemented doesn’t mean that the company or management you didn’t like to begin with is going to change.
I have no idea what ANY of this has to do with the original question, except to insert non-union blathering.
Where is the answer to how to change bad management overnight?? You said it, now explain it.

Bad management is detirmined by the board of directors, not the employee group. If the board has bad management, they can change it in a heartbeat . If you don't like how a company is managed, vote with your feet or become a board member.


* How, what, would you do to prevent these same newcomers from destroying your job and your company that you have been at 300% longer than they have? Knowing that your boss had a proven track record of ruining other carriers.
Is about preventing the newcomers from destroying your job or is it about the changes within the industry? The newcomers that are just looking to fly airplanes just like you did. They have a right to a career too. All companies grow, change mature and sometimes changes just happen.


Current management is not "flying airplanes, just like you do", they are directing a business that is flying airplanes. And rather poorly from what I hear and see. Mass exodus of employees (even the ones you seem to want to look out for), would indicate that it's not going well. They're doing what you advocate. That many people can't all be wrong.You can't envision putting a union in anywhere, that's kind of irrelevant. And some folks there don't want to be viewed as a stepping stone.

Once again, free market ecomomy. Vote with your feet. One third of all the pilots at FLOPS didn't want the union and are suffering with the consequences.

That being said, I see no value in bringing a union onto a previously non-unionized company. To me, it’s more about taking command of your own career.

I normally wouldn't see the value in a union either. But as I posted before, I have to agree with the notion in light of all the pay, benefits, and degradation of working conditions that has happened since I was there (when Options was the highest paying Frac, by far). Why is this happening?

I can't and won't speak for why FLOPS has fallen behind in the industry in that regard. However, if the pilot pay, etc. is what the business model is designed for, than it is what it is. All the fracs have different business models and clientele. Nobody is making anybody stay there. If the payroll and benefits are not what others pay, they need to weigh the benefits of leaving if they can and matching their job to a carrier. There are people that were content working there. Just because it doesn't fit certain people, doesn't mean that it doesn't fit others.


You are right, 500 pilots leaving the company overnight would shut the company down, but so wouldn’t a mass exodus of accountants, dispatchers and mechanics.


I'm guessing that the working conditions aren't changing as dymanically for the office personnel as the pilots. Doubtful that their pay has dropped, or that they're sitting somewhere uncomfortable for 14 hours after an 0?30 get-up. They do their 8 and go home.

Nobody in aviation works 8 hours, and they are as stagnant as the pilots through all this.

All of these people would have to be replaced but the company would still survive.
I can’t speak for others, but in my opinion there are two way to effect change in your personal career. Either make an attempt to step into management so you can see where the flaws are and try to fix them yourself, or match your job to an carrier that has the same values that you do.
It seems that the only ones that "attempt to step into management and succeed, are the ones who share management's vision on how things should be done. Which is not according to accepted practices, with regards to safety or procedure.

As I've stated before, the company business model or "vision" as you want to call it is what they feel is necessary for a company to succeed. I have however seen vigorous union supporters placed in management roles, and once they see the other side of the coin learn to despise unions.

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[Hogprint]

B19 posted:
I

’ve made it to the big show, and it’s a blast. I can go back anytime I want with my experience,

The "Big Show" huh? When you go decide to "go back anytime you want" do they insert you back into your old seniority slot?

It's funny but my friends in the "Big Show" are telling me I should stay right where I'm at (not that I'm thinking of moving out of the minors for the BIG leagues!).

The Show...that's some funny stuff B!

 

[TurboHonda]

B19 posted:
I

The "Big Show" huh? When you go decide to "go back anytime you want" do they insert you back into your old seniority slot?

It's funny but my friends in the "Big Show" are telling me I should stay right where I'm at (not that I'm thinking of moving out of the minors for the BIG leagues!).

The Show...that's some funny stuff B!

Did he really say that? I have him ignored and for some reason I can't reverse the process.

Actually, Bob, you can't go back. You're a friggin' scab. Remember?

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 posted:
I

The "Big Show" huh? When you go decide to "go back anytime you want" do they insert you back into your old seniority slot?

It's funny but my friends in the "Big Show" are telling me I should stay right where I'm at (not that I'm thinking of moving out of the minors for the BIG leagues!).

The Show...that's some funny stuff B!

I'm behind a desk now, so seniority only helps me with non-revenue travel.

It's only funny if you've never been with a legacy carrier. It's not so funny if you were with a legacy carrier and got laid off because of a union action. It turns funny again if you are making more money than you were at the legacy carrier with better benefits, and even funnier if you don't have a union on the property to screw the company up. It's gets funnier if you have a unique niche job that helps pilots, but the union forced you into a layoff so you can't help them anymore but the non-union pilots get the help that union pilots used to.

Yes, I laugh at the union mongers often. :laugh:


This is the basic union supporter who isn't in the industry mantra:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Did he really say that? I have him ignored and for some reason I can't reverse the process.

Actually, Bob, you can't go back. You're a friggin' scab. Remember?

Ahhh, the "S" word again.. The one thing I wish I was, but will never have the chance to be.

And... I can go back, but I'm having too much fun now!

 

[7777]

Could we please have some Purple, Orange, and Aqua, font as well? Thank you.