Most T-38 Flight Hours

[Huggyu2]

For you former or current T-38 IP's: who do you know that has the most T-38 time? I know astronaut Story Musgrave retired with over 6000 hours in the Talon. I also heard there was a USAF pilot that had 6000-7000, but I don't remember the name.
In any case, who do you know that has the most?
Who do you know that is still actively flying in the military (active duty, guard, or reserve) that has the most T-38 time?
Just curious. As long as the T-38 has been around, there is surprising little on the internet about T-38 milestones (like on f-16.net).

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

There's an old guy at Vance AFB who I was told has in the neighborhood of 6k hours. Someone here's gotta know who that cat is.

 

[LJDRVR]

I don't have the exact number, but according to Who's Who in Space, Story Musgrave has more T-38 time than any other pilot. This is pretty believable, as he went through UPT in 1967, (#1 in his class at Reese) and was on flight status until he retired in 1999. (I think that was the year.) I'll do some asking around here in Houston. I do know he retired with over 17,000 flight hours, not sure if he counted spacecraft, but I don't think so.

 

[talondriver]

My money is on one of the astronauts...or someone with extreme back problems due to hauling that frickin' 'chute to and from the jet!


Speaking of 'chutes...

Anyone "in the know" hear anything about the USAF getting new seats for the '38 (like NASA)? I'm hearing conflicting stories.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Anyone "in the know" hear anything about the USAF getting new seats for the '38 (like NASA)? I'm hearing conflicting stories.

Well, I'm not in the know, but I can give you some more rumor mill. The O-6 in charge of the T-38 upgrades visited Moody last year and gave us the then-lowdown on the program.

The deal with the seats is that, yes it is an installation where all the R&D and engineering has all ready been done by NASA, but that doesn't make it a "free" program, since the seats themselves have to be purchased.

The leadership sees the TOLD problems with the T-38 as being a significantly higher threat than problems with ejection seats. They are apparently wanting to attack the TOLD issue by looking into antiskid brake systems, or perhaps adapting the F-5 tailhook system. Plus, "they" say, giving the T-38 more stopping power would increase the safety margin where the seat is the weakest -- slow and low. This Colonel seemed to be saying that they were very serious about this upgrade and it was pretty likely to happen so long as the money was there.

Even so, last year I also saw some egress techs fitting a Martin-Baker seat in a jet here at Moody.

So, I am guessing that they're thinking about it still, but it depends on how deep the pot o'money is.

 

[talondriver]

Well, I'm not in the know, but I can give you some more rumor mill. The O-6 in charge of the T-38 upgrades visited Moody last year and gave us the then-lowdown on the program.

Thanks. Hey, if it wasn't for rumors this would be just another boring message board.

A MSgt working F-22 SPO stuff told me one of his buds at Wright-Patt said the seat was going to happen. Who knows.

I heard the same stuff about the the seat and brakes. First I've heard of the hook.

 

[Spur]

At our last MUTA, our group CC said the funding was approved (it had been on again/off again) and the upgrade will happen.

Also, I thought the powerplant upgrade will take care of the TOLD issues.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Also, I thought the powerplant upgrade will take care of the TOLD issues.

Not exactly....

The PMP upgrade helps, but it certainly doesn't alleviate the problem. Apparently it eliminates the Cat III TOLD days they have out at Laughlin due to the heat, but it doesn't fix the rest of the T-38's TOLD issues. Unfortunately, the couple percent increase in thrust with the PMP intake/engine/nozzle mod still means that there are many runways at many times of the year T-38s can't fly into because of the critical field length. The big CFLs are caused by the poor braking action of those tiny brakes and tires, plus the lack of ability to take a departure end cable if needed.

The best thing to come out of the PMP program was that they finally fixed the TOLD numbers problem, getting rid of "Adjusted Refusal Speed" which was bogus anyway. Now, we actually have numbers which reflect actual abort conditions with one or both engines running. So, I no longer have to wonder if I'm going into the dirt on a high-speed abort.

 

[Huggyu2]

OK, back to the original subject: all you pilots writing in from Moody, et al.... Who at your base is the high-time T-38 pilot? With the ACE program now dead for 9 years, I doubt anyone is over 3000 hours anymore and still on active duty. Am I wrong?
Let me know if there is anyone out there with over 2500 hours in the T-38, and what you're flying now.

 

[talondriver]

Let me know if there is anyone out there with over 2500 hours in the T-38, and what you're flying now.

We have a guy here at CBM that's pretty dorn close to 2500hrs.

 

[FastCargo]

T-38 Flight Hours

Huggy,

I have over 2500 hours in the T-38, including the T-38C (not much) and the PMP mod. I can give you details about the TOLD if you're interested. I still fly T-38Cs in the USAFR at Randolph. Also, my friend who works at AETC Operations Plans and Programs is in on briefings to General Cook (AETC commander), and on the timelines for funding is new T-38 seats, sometime after 2006 I believe. And I currently fly for FedEx.

Oh, and btw, you checked me out as a T-38 IP back in 1996 when you were at RAFB. And you know the guy at Plans and Programs as well. We both flew T-38s at Beale as CTP IPs just after you left there.

Fly safe!

FastCargo

 

[2000flyer]

They are apparently wanting to attack the TOLD issue by looking into antiskid brake systems, or perhaps adapting the F-5 tailhook system. Plus, "they" say, giving the T-38 more stopping power would increase the safety margin where the seat is the weakest -- slow and low.

From someone on the outside looking in, I'd have to agree on the braking. Talked with a Lt. and Cpt. the other day after their T38 ran off the end of the runway (by no more than 15 feet). Captain said, among other causes, if he'd had anti-skid he wouldn't have blown both mains thus preventing him from stopping on the runway.

 

[Huggyu2]

Ah, yes, FastCargo,... I've figured it out (kitty, kitty!).

OK, we've got one guy with over 2500 T-38 hours. Do I hear 3000? Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? C'mon... someone still in the USAF has to have 3000 T-38 hours!

 

[milplt]

Moody has a LTC who has over 1,000 in the T-38A, over 1,000 in the T-38B, and over 600 in the -38C. If they leave him here long enough, he may be the first to get 1,000 in all 3 models.

 

[Huggyu2]

That would be quite historic. If you are willing, drop me a private email with his name. Or, if you'd prefer not to do that, call me at DSN 368-4447 and leave a message with U-2 Recruiting. I might know him, having been in ATC/AETC off and on since 1985.

 

[busdrver]

You didn't go thru UPT around 1984 or 1985 did you?

 

[Huggyu2]

86-05 @ DLF. Do I know you?

 

[busdrver]

Maybe. I was a 38 FAIP there 'bout that time. Had a student named Huggins.