More Logging Questions

[SASewerTubeFO]

Hey Everyone-

While transferring my logbook to a computer program I started questioning some old flights and I was curious what everyone's opinion is on this issue.

When, logging SIC time on legs which you do not fly you also log that time as cross country and/or night if the flight meets those respective conditions?

The regs seem pretty clear regarding instrument time (err is that possible? regs being clear?) therefore, I don't log any landings or actual instrument time on legs that I am not the sole manipulator but I have been logging cross country and night time for those that I haven't been the sole manipulator. Well let's see how many hundreds of different opinions we can get on this. Thanks!

I am out! Rack Me!
-Trey

 

[100LL... Again!]

Yep-

Go ahead and log x-c and night - no prob.

No FAR restriction on whther you are PF or PNF.

 

[Timebuilder]

Cross country and night are A-ok.

 

[Crizz]

What about when the autopilot is flying in a crew environment. Does anyone log actual instrument time.

Curiosity.. cant wait till its an issue

 

[avbug]

What is it that strikes you as so sacred about logging instrument flight when acting as SIC? You may log as instrument time all time during which you are operating in instrument conditions.

Period. End of story.

Instrument conditions are not a qualification pertinent only to the logging of pilot in command time. Logging of instrument flight is the logging of a condition of flight, every bit as much as night flight.

If you act as SIC at night for one hour, you may log an hour of total time, an hour of night, and if it's in instrument conditions, an hour of instrument flight. You may wish to divide up instrument SIC vs. instrument PIC for your own purposes...but for logging under the regulation, you need only note that your experience has been in instrument conditions as a condition of flight.

As for calling yourself or anyone else a "gear bitch," the only persons whom I have ever heard use that phrase are very inexperienced. Using it makes you look the same. If acting as a copilot or first officer, you would do well to get in the habit of referring to your experience as such.

 

[Swaayze]

Actually I think the regs specifically state something to the effect of needing to be the sole manipulator in order to log actual instrument time. I have never logged actual instrument when I was the PNF, even if PIC.

For some reason I've always been extremely conservative with logging actual instrument time. If between layers or on top with a reasonable view, or night visual with any lights at all, etc. were all not considered actual in my book. Consequently my actual instrument time is low but it hasn't seemed to matter. I think I could've easily justified quite a bit more.

 

[avbug]

14 CFR 61.51(g) makes no statement regarding being sole manipulator of the controls when logging instrument time.

61.51(g)(1) stipulates that "a person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft soley by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."

An aircraft requiring two crewmembers means that the aircraft is operated by both crewmembers. Instrument conditions are conditions of flight, period.

61.51(b)(3) specifically identifies the categories of Conditions of Flight that must be entered: day or night, actual instrument, simulated instrument conditions.

61.51(b)(2) addresses the types of pilot experience or training, and allows for solo, pilot in command, second in command, flight and ground training received from an authorized instructor, and training received in a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.

Any of the types of pilot experience listed in 61.51(b)(2) may be in instrument conditions, and may be appropriately logged as such.

Instrument conditions do not necessarily include only conditions less than VFR, but any conditions requiring or leading to the use of instruments as the primary flight reference. Moonless nights over dark featureless terrain, or any other condition which requires flight by reference to instruments is instrument flight, and may be appropriately logged as such.

 

[SASewerTubeFO]

Well, the one thing that I thought was clear in the regs has just been deemed that much more confusing and vague.

Under the Gleim study guide for the ATP I have found the following excerpt, which is the reason why I have been logging instrument time only on the legs that I am the flying pilot.

61.51 Pilot Logbooks (Question 32)

In an airplane requiring two pilots, all of the time during which the second in command is controlling the airplane solely by reference to flight instruments may be logged by him/her as instrument flight time.

I just want my logbook to be accurate. Would logging instrument time while operating as the NFP raise any eyebrows in airline interviews?

And, what about FE since they are required crewmembers in some aircraft are they then entitled to log instrument time?

 

[avbug]

Flight engineer time is not pilot time. Logging the conditions of flight for a flight engineer is superfluous.