More Falcon 7Xs for Netjets Europe... Any Scope Issues?

[On Your Six]

Looks like more beautiful Falcon 7Xs for Netjets Europe... Just curious, but are you NJA guys concerned about scope issues at NJA? I understand that the 7X might compete with existing NJA/NJI products in the US (don't want to cannibalize existing product line), but aren't you concerned about the ability to transfer passengers from one unit to another (from NJA/NJI to NJE or NJME)? Is that even an issue? I actually don't know how that works - does a NJI/NJA customer use the other divisions at all when they travel abroad? Has there been much discussion about scope at NJA?

Read below:

Dassault wins order for nine more Falcon 7X from NetJets; backlog exceeds 170

PARIS (Thomson Financial) - Dassault Aviation has won an order for an additional nine Falcon 7X business aircraft from NetJets Europe, taking the total order to 33 aircraft.

Fractional ownership operator NetJets Europe, part of Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway Inc, will start to receive the aircraft from the second quarter of 2008, Dassault said.
The French aircraft manufacturer said its order backlog for the 7X has now passed 170 aircraft.
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[DO-82 driver]

In a recent meeting in CMH the Boss Man said that the 7x's won't be on the property in Europe until 2012.

Europeans prefer a European made a/c.

I am very concerned about scope, but for other reasons.

 

[On Your Six]

In a recent meeting in CMH the Boss Man said that the 7x's won't be on the property in Europe until 2012.

Europeans prefer a European made a/c.

I am very concerned about scope, but for other reasons.

I hear you. Looks like the article contradicts the Boss Man and states 2008. I had heard from a NJE pilot I met at Luton that NJE was already preparing for the arrival of 7Xs... Sorta confusing... Who knows?????? All I know is that I want to fly one of those 7Xs myself...

 

[gutshotdraw]

DOT Regulations still limit how many times a year an EU registered aircraft may enter the U.S. NJE aircraft are registered in Portugal. Consequently, the possibility of NJE aircraft taking over vast amounts of intercontinental flying from NJA or NJI is remote. Meanwhile, it is quite common for NJE aircraft to fly U.S. owners around the EU after arriving in Europe via NJA/NJI. It is also common for NJA/NJI to fly European owners around the States once they arrive here.

NJME (more correctly National Air Service) is a marketing alliance and technical support agreement with the Middle Eastern owners of that operation. As such, you can't really consider their operation a part of Netjets. Therefore, I don't believe scope is on the table in Jeddah.

Lastly, scope is, has been, and will continue to be a major issue affecting U.S. operations. I doubt anything will change with the IBB talks that conclude this week but look for it to be a hot topic in the 2008-2010 time frame. The Teamsters would like to make NJE operations a part of scope negotiations and I'm sure the coming Asian operation will bring up even more scope concerns.

 

[fischman]

The president of the eboard for 1108 stated that scope is going to be the #1 priority in 2008.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The president of the eboard for 1108 stated that scope is going to be the #1 priority in 2008.

Yes. I agree. Bad breath is not good. It's bad.

 

[RNObased]

The president of the eboard for 1108 stated that scope is going to be the #1 priority in 2008.

Yeah, let't not let that get in the way of PTOs or anything else they seem to think we need.

 

[fischman]

Yes. I agree. Bad breath is not good. It's bad.

yes. yes.

have some.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

DOT Regulations still limit how many times a year an EU registered aircraft may enter the U.S. NJE aircraft are registered in Portugal. Consequently, the possibility of NJE aircraft taking over vast amounts of intercontinental flying from NJA or NJI is remote. Meanwhile, it is quite common for NJE aircraft to fly U.S. owners around the EU after arriving in Europe via NJA/NJI. It is also common for NJA/NJI to fly European owners around the States once they arrive here.

Gutshotdraw,

DOT Regulations do indeed limit NON-CFR129 foreign CFR135 "type" air-carrier operations in and out of the US.

However, NJE is indeed a CFR129 air carrier -- yes they do have an FAA air-carrier certificate. Therefore, NJE is not limited by said DOT restrictions -- which by the way have been loosend recently.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshotdraw,

DOT Regulations do indeed limit NON-CFR129 foreign CFR135 "type" air-carrier operations in and out of the US.

However, NJE is indeed a CFR129 air carrier -- yes they do have an FAA air-carrier certificate. Therefore, NJE is not limited by said DOT restrictions -- which by the way have been loosend recently.

I had read about the changes to the foreign entry rules. I think they went from 6 to 12 visits per year. The info that NJE holds a U.S. certificate that exempts them from the limitation is news to me. Regardless, I still believe it is unlikely to impact NJA or NJI fleet growth by way of a whipsaw situation. Especially since their crew and operations costs are higher than here anyway.

I know 1108 would like to bring NJE pilots under the umbrella but I'm wondering how that would happen given that they are already organizing an in-house union and what the impact of EU labor law would be on such a thing occuring.