Military vs. RVSM

[SIG600]

Has anyone here actually had any luck with getting preapproval for RVSM airspace when going on the road? Staying under 28K is KILLIING us, and the denials just keep rolling in. An O-6 of ours got denied 3 times in one day trying to get from coast to coast. Kinda wondering how much longer the DOD is gonna put up with the delays, extra fuel, etc. before enough is enough.

 

[propilot]

the thing is, ATC doesn't know an O-6 from an O-3(nor do they care)...anymore than they know a Private from an ATP...they're just following the rules that have been given to them.

 

[Purpledog]

I'm not sure which type of aircraft you fly but military are supposed to be exempt from RVSM since no tacair a/c fits the bill as it's written. At least that's the breifing material we received.

 

[SIG600]

Well the "exemption" is that we can call ahead of time and request an altitude in the RVSM system, ATC still has to maintain 2K' vertically for us though, and if they can't work it, they deny it. Supposedly if the denials pile up the Air Force is gonna step in.

 

[slinky]

I do FCF's all the time and have almost given up going over 28k. Seems like the only time I can get over 28, even on an FCF profile, is by getting random vectors over the water.

slinky

 

[talondriver]

Supposedly if the denials pile up the Air Force is gonna step in.

They'll bring the pile of denials and the large pile of taxpayers fuel receipts to the table.

 

[Fury220]

They'll bring the pile of denials and the large pile of taxpayers fuel receipts to the table.

Our wing leadership here at KSPS doesn't see it as a factor. The student XC missions are syllabus-directed, so the priority is "training," according to them.

Mission impact? Well, since we want to get stanley as many approaches as we can, we need to accept shorter hops given the RVSM airspace restrictions. It's more important, they say, to get good training at the sacrifice of range.

To me, that means no more student sorties to Nellis through KABQ. It just can't be done at 280 if you expect to have more than vectors to final for a full stop with 700# of fuel on board. Hell, we can barely go east to Eglin through KBAD or KSHV. Sucks to be me, but I guess there's always CT XC flying


As far as changing things, you won't see the 80FTW complaining to the Air Force or FAA about the restrictions, as our leadership doesn't see it as a huge impact. Daaaammmmmmnnnnnn it.

 

[SIG600]

We take detachments all over the country on a regular basis. When you have to make one or two extra stops for gas because you can't get high enough for an effecient cruise, and you multiply that over a large number of jets, the cost and time add up very quick.

 

[talondriver]

Our wing leadership here at KSPS doesn't see it as a factor. The student XC missions are syllabus-directed, so the priority is "training," according to them.

That's unfortunate since it's not just AETC but an AF wide issue.

Sounds like your Wing/CC needs to play a little team ball.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Have you tried to contact the Military desk at the center which controls the region from which your flight is originating? We were told that is the folks to talk to in order to arrange the exemption.
Another option is to climb into the 40s. They will give you that without RVSM.