Military Transition to Commercial

[CrewDawg]

Need some info. about military pilots transitioning to commercial flying. I need to write a 3-6 page paper for commercial theory. What are the steps required to transition; and how do hours transfer from military to commercial flying? Was the transfer tough? For the guys who went T-38, did you have centerline thrust limitation? If so, what had to be done to get this removed? What were some of the biggest road blocks and differences? Any info, would be appreciated.

 

[Deuce130]

Who the H#ll assigned that paper and why? And sorry for not helping.

 

[stonewall]

Steps required: Get an ATP, which means taking a checkride in a Piper Seminole or something like that. Pretty much take 2 days and pay $1400 or so and get the ATP. Spend $7K on a 737 type if you plan on applying to SWA. Pay $300 for FE written if you plan on applying to FDX. Contact all your ex-military buds flying for various airlines and promise to buy them booze if they write you good recs. Get interview. Get hired.

Transfer is easy. Lift, weight, thrust, and drag don't know the difference between between civ/mil. Hours are hours. Some airlines allow a conversion, since mil only counts gear up to touchdown (+.1 for taxi). Of course, some people (like, well, me) think that a 1.0 of fighter IP time is better than a 1.0 of CFI time. Anyway, flying big airplanes ain't rocket science.

I had a centerline thrust restriction from the -38, but got it removed after my ATP check in a Seminole.

Road blocks don't exist if you do your research and put the time in. Differences are big. Mil flying and Civ flying are just different. At the majors, ALL the pilots are qualied and usually pretty good, regardless of their background. And despite all the sniping seen on FI, everyone usually gets along in the cockpit and the layovers regardless of where they came from.

 

[Doozer]

If a military pilot wants to fly civilian aircraft, he has two choices:

1) pass the FAA written & practical tests for the ratings & privileges sought, just like the overwhelming majority of civilian pilots, or

2) pass the Military Competency Exam. This is a FAA written examination that (if I remember correctly) concentrates on 14 CFR, Parts 61 & 91 & commercial operating privileges & limitations.

Passing the Military Competency Exam qualifies the military pilot for a FAA commercial pilot certificate with category, class & type ratings equivalent to the military aircraft he has been current & rated in within the preceding 12 months. In addition, if he is an instrument rated military pilot, the appropriate instrument rating will be placed on the certificate as well.

After getting an FAA commercial certificate, one just adds privileges and ratings in accordance with 14 CFR, Parts 61 or 141, as desired.

I had no significant problems transitioning from military transport helicopters to commercial flying. Many do, however.

It's my observation that those who have problems making the transition are carrying psychological baggage from the military world.

Commercial flying is more about making people comfortable with you than stick and rudder ability. Those who can't subdue their egos (or stop talking about what we did or how we did it in in the military), generally have difficulty adjusting.

With respect to how hours transfer from military to civilian flying, the pilots with the most foresight keep two sets of logbooks -- one for military flying and one kept in accordance with the rules outlined in 14 CFR, Part 61.

Unfortunately, myself included, most of us don't keep two sets of logbooks. When we go looking for work after release from active duty, we must somehow reconstruct our hours.

Generally, it's easiest to just add a factor to every flight to account for the difference between "takeoff and landing" and "when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing" To me, .3 per flight seems reasonable, but some employers allow different figures.

Good luck on your paper.

 

[Fox-Tree]

Need some info. about military pilots transitioning to commercial flying. I need to write a 3-6 page paper for commercial theory. What are the steps required to transition; and how do hours transfer from military to commercial flying? Was the transfer tough? For the guys who went T-38, did you have centerline thrust limitation? If so, what had to be done to get this removed? What were some of the biggest road blocks and differences? Any info, would be appreciated.

Magnum pretty much coverered most of the process. Hardest part was finding a neighbor who still remembered what a typewriter was and had one in their attic so I could fill out the stupid apps. Transfer was not hard - just not fast. Get the ATP and endless other paperwork compiled, fill out the apps, get some buds to recommend you, don't be a tool in the interview - get hired. No real "road blocks" encountered. Differences - too many to list. Nothing too difficult to handle - just don't try to make it like the military and be flexible. Civilians use/know/apply the FARs better than mil, so getting up to speed on those presents a small challenge. Generally much easier than mil flying - start, taxi, takeoff and fly from A to B.

 

[VVJM265]

Generally much easier than mil flying - start, taxi, takeoff and fly from A to B.

Don't forget to land!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Gorilla]

Do NOT, under any circumstances, try to re-create a military cockpit. None of this gravelly-voiced "Hi, I'm Col. Rock Steele, and I'm in command of this bird." Try to pull unnecessary rank or attempt to gain some lame type of respect will result in the other guy either removing you from the trip, or bailing out himself after the next landing.

Actually, ex-mil guys are pretty good. The worst mini-hitlers are usually pure civilian wanna-bees starved for respect, and they think they deserve it because they "are the captain."

 

[AlbieF15]

I've seen jerks from both camps, and some great guys from both camps. Just picked up a trip next week with one of my favorite captains--former BNA American Eagle guy.

Related note: If you are a military guy just starting a career, START A LOGBOOK! A good logbook with a note or two in the remarks here or there is a wonderful memory jogger down the road--whether its for working on getting ready for an interview or just for personal reflection. I have the names of a lot of great guys in my logbook, and alas--some of them are now gone. I treasure those old log entries like some people treasure old photographs. If you are early in your career, transcribing entries from your 781s into a log is a pain, but not an overwhelming task. Wait 10 years, however, and the memories fade and the amount of work increases considerably.

I also have seen a lot of guys who quit logging time wish they hadn't when they had a change of career plans. Again--log the time--its worth the effort.

 

[Tnkr Pilot]

What Now?

AlbieF15,

I'm that 8 year guy that didn't keep a log book, so what have you seen guys do at interviews? Would a printout of AFORMS work? I would imagine some entrepreneur has made a program to convert Mil time to Civ time...if not than what have you seen? Suggestions?

 

[AlbieF15]

Copy of your flight records checked out is fine, or the top copy with your time printout. I took both my logbooks and my green jacketed flight records...but lots of military guys just take the flight records.

The logbook reminder wasn't just for job hunts--it was for your use down the road. Good luck in any case....

 

[CrewDawg]

Who the H#ll assigned that paper and why? And sorry for not helping.

Well, I kinda got myself into this one. My techer assigned a paper on anything we wanted to commercial or military aviation. Being that I have been selected for a pilot slot in the guard, I just got to wondering what was required for mil. guys (who don't have all the certificates & ratings) to get their civilain certificates. Turns out it isn't as easy as I thought it would be so I posted on here.




Anyway, thanks for all for the information. It was more than enough and helped me add what I needed for my paper.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I would go to Joey "Gordo" Sanders near BHM. He was a Civilain pilot that went on to fly F4's in the military. He flys purple planes out of MEM and stocks the coldest beer in North Alabama.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I would go to Joey "Gordo" Sanders near BHM. He was a Civilain pilot that went on to fly F4's in the military. He flys purple planes out of MEM and stocks the coldest beer in North Alabama.

My kind of guy!

 

[FedExFlyer]

Contact all your ex-military buds flying for various airlines and promise to buy them booze if they write you good recs. Get interview. Get hired.

Or get your Dad to write you a good rec.......huh Magnum?!?!

 

[stonewall]

Or get your Dad to write you a good rec.......huh Magnum?!?!

Certainly helps

I guess you haven't looked too closely at the Fedex on-line app or recommendation form. They specifically ask: Do you have a relative that works for FDX? What was I gonna say, "No?"

It got me the interview, and it's not something I'm ashamed of. He gave almost 20 years to this company. Besides, he wasn't sitting next to me in the interview or the sim, was he?

 

[AlbieF15]

F16 driver, T&E pilot, combat vet...yeah...Magnum's a daddy's boy who couldn't get anywhere without his help. His brother, the spec ops C130 guy, was weak too--only flew a ton of missions into/out of places at night killing bad guys and saving our own troops.

There are some pretty young second generation pilots at the property who might have gotten a boost from the regionals with some family help. Magnum ain't one of 'em... His resume would look good at ANY company.

But..as he alluded to...if a dirty 30 or top 500 guy who helped BUILD this company that now helps feed me wants a shot for his son/daughter, then I say give it to them. It isn't too much to ask of someone who helped create a franchise...

 

[active_herk]

Regarding the logbooks, if you are a computer geek (like I'm guessing a few of the guys/gals on this forum are, judging by the number of posts), you may want to think of creating a spreadsheet of your flight time. It isn't too hard to do, and where it will really pay off is when you start filling out applications. Its been a while since I applied anywhere, but as I recall, it seemed like every airline had a different method of counting military time. If you use a spreadsheet, you can make an adjustment for each airline based on their rules, and then do a printout of the spreadsheet and bring it in. Works wonders. Of course, this method works really well if you are just starting out in your career. If you've been flying a while, it'll definitely take you some time doing mindless data entry to get it all in. Hope this helps.