Military Solo Time = PIC?

[jetpilot243]

I have asked several guys around here about Military PIC time and how it converts to the civilian world. I have all my S-3B time correct but I have one last question:
According to Pt 61.51 "sole manipulator of the controls" does this include all your solo time as a student in T-34s, T-2s, T-A4s etc? I have one UAL guy telling me it doesn't count unless you're NATOPS qualified in the particular aircraft and I have a SWA guy telling me to count it. What do you guys/gals think?

 

[minitour]

"Fly what you can, log what you need"

er something like that

Sorry...nothing constructive here...just boredom

 

[airgator]

Every time I ask an IP, I get a different answer. When I ask the reserve IP's that have airline jobs, half say log it cause you flew it, the other half say don't b/c you don't want to be questioned about it in an interview and have to explain yourself, even if it is justifiable. I'm hoping there's someone on this board that is now or once was in some sort of a management position and see what their take is.

 

[Nalo Boy]

Take what you can get...to a point. If youre a Nav or WSO that gets some stick time in the back, dont log it as pic jet.

 

[RJP]

This horse has been beaten into a frothy puddle earlier. Do a search and you'll find me arguing that, YES, if you're the only one in the jet, you're the PIC. Just one guy's humble opinion.

 

[FracCapt]

This horse has been beaten into a frothy puddle earlier. Do a search and you'll find me arguing that, YES, if you're the only one in the jet, you're the PIC. Just one guy's humble opinion.

Agreed. And if the "official" word is that you are NOT the PIC when solo....who do they hang when you screw up?

Personally, I see that as the way to determine whether or not you are PIC. If you are the one to get in trouble when things go south, you're the PIC. If you're solo, who else COULD be the PIC?

 

[Booster]

Log it

If you have passed your safe for solo check, in the Training Command, when you go up YOU are the PIC. You signed for the a/c and are the sole manipulator of the controls.
You probably don't have more than 60 hours or so of solo time from training. If you have more than a 1000 PIC in S3 and you feel uncomfortable reporting the solo time then leave it off the resume. Otherwise put it in and forget about it.

Good luck.

 

[PTWOB]

When I interviewed with United, they had a reputation of being total jerks about logbooks. I still logged my UPT solo time as PIC and felt that I could justify it. They didn't ask me one question about it. My logbook was a non-issue.

BTW - I got hired - for what that is worth now!

 

[airgator]

PTWOB-
Did you log your other time as Dual or leave it out?

 

[FastCargo]

Logging time...

For what's it's worth...

Because the FARs differ so much from how military logs stuff, I went pretty conservative.

I didn't log any of my UPT time, logic was I wasn't a 'rated' pilot. Same with flying courses I took (B-1B initial qual, T-38 requal, T-38 Instructor Training, etc). Because I was a CP in the B-1, that didn't count as PIC either. That left my primary, secondary, instructor and evaluator time. Secondary time is outa there as well, but Instructor/Evaluator time is pretty much good to go. So, the question is, does primary time count?

That depends on your aircraft of course...in the T-38,if you had 2 rated guys who were not IPs, primary/secondary split is good. But if you had two IPs, then it was primary/IP split. Does that primary time count? I doubt it, and so I had to break out each flight where I was an IP riding with another IP, and subtracted that primary time to arrive at Primary as PIC + Instructor + Evaluator = Total PIC.

Very conservative, I used a military printout, with a separate grid showing how I broke it out. Both companies who hired me seemed to be happy with it and there was never a question.

It's what you can 'answer the mail' for in the long run.

Good luck!
FastCargo

 

[RJP]

I didn't log any of my UPT time, logic was I wasn't a 'rated' pilot. Same with flying courses I took (B-1B initial qual, T-38 requal, T-38 Instructor Training, etc).

YGTBSM!

You didn't log any of the time you were in ANY training course? If you can log student time as a civilian, why wouldn't you be willing to log any student time as a military guy? Especially AFTER you got your wings.

I just don't get it.

 

[FastCargo]

Let me...

...clarify.

I didn't log any time I took in a flying course as PIC time. I most certainly logged it as jet time. Also, for those unsure of what I mean by 'logging', though I did use a logbook, that logbook never went near an interview. I used my military printout , plus the breakdown grid when I went for my interviews. The logbook was used more as a memory jogger to remember particular flights, people, etc.

Because I had so much time as an instructor/evaluator, I really didn't need to scrape and claw for every hour I could. I could afford to be fairly conservative.

Fly Safe!
FastCargo

 

[RJP]

Clarified. Nice avatar, too.

 

[FL510GV]

Check out this website. It's not the gospel, but has some good info and a conversion spreadsheet.

http://mhesteve5.home.mindspring.com/Flight Time.htm