Military PIC time

[weekendwarrior]

Ok fellas. Here's one for you. My apologies if it has been answered before. I am a rated aviator in the Army, and hold a commercial rotor wing FAA certificate. I am now in AH64D school. Being that am rated in rotorcraft (FAA) can I log PIC if I am sole manipulator of the controls? I understand that as far as military time is concerned, it is not PIC, but for civilian purposes does it count?

 

[pilotyip]

It varies

At UAL when I interviewed, I was told you could only count, logged first pilot time while you were also logging Aircraft Commander. Even though on a three pilot crew you would log aircraft commander time while not at the controls. I have interviewed at other airlines, that let you count all of your first pilot time as PIC. I assume you are putting this in a civilian logbook where you have choice of how you log it, because the Army computerized printouts I have seen are pretty straight forward.

 

[skiddriver]

Log your aircraft commander time and pilot-at-controls time separately. The USN/USMC does that as part of our logging process. If the Army doesn't, you'll have to do it yourself.

The PAC time is good for PIC time for additional ratings on your license from the FAA.

You need to ask the HR department or pilot recruiter which they prefer when you submit a resume or application. Some only want "signer" time, some are more flexible.

If you are heading to a job fair where you will be walking up to recruiters cold, prepare two resumes, one with signer time, one with PAC time and show them both to the recruiter explaining what they represent. They'll take the one they want.

Good luck.

 

[JungleJetFO]

Being that am rated in rotorcraft (FAA) can I log PIC if I am sole manipulator of the controls? I understand that as far as military time is concerned, it is not PIC, but for civilian purposes does it count?

Yes, you can log it as civilian PIC time under Part 61 as sole manipulator of the controls. This is good for flight time needed towarded a commercial or ATP.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The PAC time is good for PIC time for additional ratings on your license from the FAA.

But not always. You can be PAC while training, but that's not FAA Part 61 PIC time unless you also have "aircraft commander" status or an FAA rating in the aircraft.

The problem is that the FAA and military definitions are different and, while some are similar, the defintiions don't really coincide. For each flight, you pretty much have to figure out how it fits into both sets of rules.

From an FAA civil an standpoint, since weekendswarrior, you have an FAA rotary rating and the military helicopter you are flying does not (I assume) require an FAA type rating, you fit FAR 61.51requirements for logging FAA PIC.

There's a guy who has put out an free electronic logbook formilitary aviators that allows for logging and reporting both types. It might be helpful:

http://home.earthlink.net/~navalaviator/

 

[kelbill]

If you are flying with an instructor, you might be sole manipulator, but I am pretty sure he/she is considering the flight time to be his/her PIC. If you are solo, different story of course. I try to narrow it down to who will get in the most trouble should something bad happen. The Instructor most likely, as he/she signs for the jet/chopper ultimately. Good luck.