Military Pic Time

[Eddiespaghetti]

I need a single seat military aviator to answer this question. I am going through my logbook, and the only time it has been logged as "aircraft commander" (navy speak for PIC) is after the RAG. I obviously log PIC time when I am the only person in the jet, and also now when I am an instructor in said jet. I was wondering if all the solo time IN the RAG and in primary / intermediate jet training (when I was solo, not with an instructor in the backseat) can be logged as PIC time? I have looked at FAR part 61:51, but its in legal language which is tough to understand. I am sure this has been asked a million times before, I just want to know what others have logged as PIC time. New guy to this forum, thanks for the help.

 

[Snoopy58]

For the airlines, you're better off not logging any student time of any flavor as PIC -- it's a can of worms that's best left unopened for the few hours you're talking about.

For the FAA (filling out hours for the ATP rating), if you have wings, I believe you can log it as PIC: you're a rated pilot, and you're signed off to take the jet out unsupervised. The fact that you are still in training for the tactical parts of the mission doesn't, I should think, make you any less PIC of the jet.

Realize that you can legally log various things as PIC per the FARs that the airlines don't want to see. As a single seat guy, most of those goofy situations don't apply (like being copilot in a heavy -- can you log your 1/2 of the time as PIC? per the FAR's, yes; for most airlines, absolutely not -- they want to know if you were IN COMMAND, not sole manipulator).

The general advice is to keep things clean & simple; a few extra hours isn't worth the risk of somebody challenging your logbook in an interview & shooting you down over a few hours in the RAG.

That help?

 

[Eddiespaghetti]

Thanks Snoopy, It looks like when all is said and done (if you get out at your commitment date), most single seat Navy guys will get around 2000 total hours of which 1600-1700 of which will be PIC. Is this going to be competive? Looking at all the other guys that post (and talking to a few hiring guys that I know) this seems kind of low. I know many airlines have addition factors (sortie multiplication, time multiplication, ect), what is your read on this? Thanks

 

[Snoopy58]

Those numbers sound a little low (i.e. I thought single seat guys had a little more time than that getting out at the earliest point), but I could be wrong there. Bottom line, guys who get out of the AF or Navy at the end of their commitment ARE competitive for airline jobs, barring something strange in their history (multiple non-flying tours, lack of normal upgrade progression, Class A that's their fault, etc).

The airlines all realize that 2000 tactical jet hours makes for a good pilot, or 2500-3000 tanker transport hours, and you are NOT put in the same place in the stack as the civillian Lear driver with the same # of hours. Some airlines have their favorite "flavor of the month," such as a preference for Navy tactical jet pilots, or crew aircraft, or (fill in their chief pilot's background) whatever. But in general, if you're at about the same point as your peers at the X-year point (flight lead, instructor, etc) you're competitive in the big picture.

Hard to know what the details of that picture will look like _N_ years in the future, who will be hiring, or what their specific numbers will be, but generally 1000 hours turbine PIC is the gold standard, and you should have no problem with that. As for total time required, the standards (both stated minimums to apply & what it really takes to land the interview) will almost certainly be such that you'll be fine. The hiring people want to capture, not exclude, guys at the end of their initial commitment!

All the best!

Snoopy