Military Hours Conversion

[Fins Up]

This sounds too good to be true. One of the pilots here is saying that all time when you are "sole manipulator of the controls", regardless of whether you signed for the plane or not, is considered PIC time. Therefore, (P-3 talk here), anytime after you are a "2P" (Patrol plane pilot, eligible to sign for a plane, but not a Patrol plane commander)or a plane commander but not the one signing for the plane that day, you can claim all your copilot time as PIC time. He's also claiming that even T-34 time after you have completed your FAM-13 solo can be counted as PIC time under FAA rules.

This sounds way to good to be true. Any thoughts?

 

[Snoopy58]

Yes and no... what the FAA allows you to log isn't at all the same thing as what civillian employers want to see. While the FAA allows you to LOG all of your "hand on" time as PIC, that is NOT the same thing as BEING the PIC. The airlines don't care about your hands on time, their apps will ask you about the time you have in the aircraft AS the PIC. Which means none of your hours before your checkout as an aircraft commander count for THEIR "PIC" column.

This has been discussed lots before here on FlightInfo. Bottom line is that you can put whatever you like in your logbook, and you're perfectly legal to log your hand-on time as PIC per the FAR's (Part 61? 65?) -- but look at the reg before you do, rather than taking some internet gossip board as gospel. HOWEVER, if you're thinking about applying to an airline ever in your future, you might ALSO want to keep of column of flight time during which you WERE the PIC, since THAT is what you'll be putting on all the apps.

Best of luck!

 

[skiddriver]

This sounds too good to be true. One of the pilots here is saying that all time when you are "sole manipulator of the controls", regardless of whether you signed for the plane or not, is considered PIC time. Therefore, (P-3 talk here), anytime after you are a "2P" (Patrol plane pilot, eligible to sign for a plane, but not a Patrol plane commander)or a plane commander but not the one signing for the plane that day, you can claim all your copilot time as PIC time. He's also claiming that even T-34 time after you have completed your FAM-13 solo can be counted as PIC time under FAA rules.

This sounds way to good to be true. Any thoughts?

It's simple for folks who log in a Naval flight log.

For getting your FAA ratings and privileges, the FPT column is PIC, once you are a rated pilot (have received your wings) and have passed a PIC NATOPS check in the aircraft, or if you had the appropriate category/class/type rating when you came in. Your friend is wrong on the post FAM-13 claim, you have to wait until you get your wings and a T-34 PIC NATOPS check, unless you had a PP-SEL with a high performance/complex endorsement when you got to flight school. If that is the case then your FPT counts from FAM-1. I shouldn't have to say this, but all your solo time counts as PIC, regardless of whether you had the FAA license or your wings.

This isn't that big of a deal for getting your commercial civilian equivalency (just need 10 hours PIC and a current PIC NATOPS check), but it does help when you go for your ATP.

For most airlines, the Aircraft Commander column is your PIC time for application purposes. Occasionally, you'll find one that will take the PAC definition (Piedmont did when I applied with them) and you can submit your FPT as PIC. Always ask, you don't want to find out at the interview you guessed wrong.

 

[SkyPigPilot]

A lot of the confusion comes from two different FAA definition of PIC time. Part 61 mentions the "sole manipulator of the controls" definition, while Part 1 uses the more restrictive definition. As mentioned above, Part 61 is good for getting your ratings, (ATP, etc.), but many of the airlines applications specify Part 1, or the one responsible for the aircraft. Best of Luck.

 

[VVJM265]

SkyPigPilot hit the salient part of the problem on the head. The applicable FARs are: parts 1, 61.51 & 61.55. PIC per part 1 = Navy "A" time, even if you are in the rack. He who signs the A sheet logs the Aircraft Commander time. Therefore solo time in 34s, 45, etc. is also A time or PIC time. IMHO, when filling our apps, best to stick to the part 1 definition (mulitiplied of course by the company specific converstion factor).

Lots of folks bash AirInc, but they do have some good articles on issues like these, see the Jan 00 & Feb 00 issues for more discussion.

Good Luck.

 

[Fins Up]

Thanks fellas. Yeah, I wouldn't want to get to the interview and have them call b.s. on my PIC totals. I'll stick with the A-time = PIC time and not push my luck.

By the way, did my ATP checkride with Joan at ATP Inc. in New Jersey. She has quite the soft spot for military folks. She'll keep you honest but won't bust your B@!!s.