Middle East Booming: Emirates to Hire 4,500 More Staff Starting April

[typhoonpilot]

TP no time like now, DAL window should be open late fall with the first class in early 2013. May as well get to the head of the line as the talk in ATL is 7000 new hires in the next ten years.

Really very tempting at this point. Any American at EK age 40 and under should seriously consider going back for the start of the hiring wave.



TP

 

[overseas boy]

I think a fare few will TP, and given that the Americans are now the second largest group at EK, I think EK will have under estimated the "pull" of the job market back home once it turns around. Not only will they not have the American pilots applying to fill the seats a fare few will be leaving also. Obviously many will stay due to the golden handcuffs but lots will have some serious decisions to make regards staying.

 

[uba757]

Really very tempting at this point. Any American at EK age 40 and under should seriously consider going back for the start of the hiring wave.



TP, I am 40 years old and in the process of getting my command at EK and you think it would be better for me to go back home and sit on the right seat for the next 10 years to then maybe get a command on a 737 or 319?????? Don't know man, things would have to improve back home a great deal for that to make sence to me! Don't get me wrong, I miss the US like crazy but I have to think about more than just myself and family always comes first!

 

[777forever]

Question is, in the long run what is a better option? US Legacies, or a tax free foreign job like Qatar or Emirates?

Money-wise, I can't see someone at a legacy ever catching up to someone who makes tax free salary year after year over a long period of time.

QOL is up in the air. Seems like you work pretty close to the max month after month at the middle east carriers, while at the legacies you get plenty of time off, get to do jumpseating etc. But in the US you have crime, pretty much none in the middle east, maids and babysitters are much cheaper then in the US, and I don't think any Legacy will ever pick up their pilots at home like Emirates does.

In the end, I think it all comes down to personal preference. I think this topic needs its own thread

 

[Dumb Pilot]

First of all, you need to come to an understanding of what your tax liabilities are as a US citizen who becomes an expat, it is NOT tax free. Also when you become an expat it is usually to pass through a rough period on your career and it is intended with a termination date, you are talking about spending all of your usefull years as a pilot on an expat situation and that involves a lot more than just you, you are placing your family in that expat lifestyle for that period of time as well, most likely the destiny of your children is to marry within that culture since they will grow up in that society and develope their lives around what they know, the culture that they grew up in. To me the expat option is good for somebody who is thinking about it for a few years (within a 10 year time frame) or somebody who does it at the later years of their careers, early retirement from their legacy jobs, or furloughed after the age of 50 for example, then the expat market offers pretty good options, but to choose to expatriate as a career alternative when you are young, with a young family it rarely works.

 

[777forever]

First of all, you need to come to an understanding of what your tax liabilities are as a US citizen who becomes an expat, it is NOT tax free. Also when you become an expat it is usually to pass through a rough period on your career and it is intended with a termination date, you are talking about spending all of your usefull years as a pilot on an expat situation and that involves a lot more than just you, you are placing your family in that expat lifestyle for that period of time as well, most likely the destiny of your children is to marry within that culture since they will grow up in that society and develope their lives around what they know, the culture that they grew up in. To me the expat option is good for somebody who is thinking about it for a few years (within a 10 year time frame) or somebody who does it at the later years of their careers, early retirement from their legacy jobs, or furloughed after the age of 50 for example, then the expat market offers pretty good options, but to choose to expatriate as a career alternative when you are young, with a young family it rarely works.

You make very good points but as one poster put, he's upgrading to wide-body Capt at 40. Very hard to do here in the states, and doubtful he will return anytime soon. Even with the small tax burden US citizen expats may have I have trouble seeing any US Legacy or Cargo pilot matching the Middle East Expat pilots in pay.

For me, the QOL is the biggie. I've heard some say the US is the best in the world, and some say they are enjoying a quality of life in Dubai that is practically impossible to match in the US. Having a cook and maid is pretty expensive in the US, however I understand its much more affordable overseas. That is a huge QOL boost right there, especially if you have kids.

 

[typhoonpilot]

TP, I am 40 years old and in the process of getting my command at EK and you think it would be better for me to go back home and sit on the right seat for the next 10 years to then maybe get a command on a 737 or 319?????? Don't know man, things would have to improve back home a great deal for that to make sence to me! Don't get me wrong, I miss the US like crazy but I have to think about more than just myself and family always comes first!

I think it is something you and every American like you should seriously consider.

There is no question that you will make more money if you stay at EK for the rest of your career, especially upgrading now. Is that the most important thing in life though?

Think about it,........................ 25 more years at EK. Right now you said you miss the USA like crazy. How is that feeling going to be a year from now?, five years from now?, ten years from now?

Do you have elderly parents? or will they become elderly within the next 25 years? Who will look after them?

How about your kids? Sure, the expat school experience has some benefits, but how about them learning American culture? How about them developing a work ethic by taking part time jobs while in high school ( can't be done here ).

What we are going to see coming up is one of the largest hiring waves in U.S. airline history. We haven't seen one like this since the early to mid 80s. To be at the start of that hiring wave at someplace like Delta would be a great opportunity to get back to the States and have a very good career.

Years ago when I was an MD-80 instructor in Taiwan I said that it is better to be a first officer for a major in the USA than it is to be a captain overseas. There were a number of reasons for that. A lot having to do with work rules, lifestyle, etc. That statement still holds true to a certain extent.

Look at DAL's number, they are pretty compelling. Easy to live on that kind of money. First year is 62K, then mid 80s, then low 90s, then over 100 and that's narrow body. With their hiring wave one could reasonably expect widebody in a relatively short period of time. They have the same 12% provident fund contribution we have plus a 401K.

Stay, by all means, and get at least 1000 PIC in the B777 but then think seriously about going back.



Typhoonpilot

 

[uba757]

Thanks TP! I understand where you are coming from. I only have 19 years of flying left in me! LOL
My family likes it here in Dubai and that is the most important thing for me, I agree with you about their future education and think the best thing is for them to go to high school in the US. I am aiming at 15 years with EK and then returning home, should be about 50 by then and have a little money in the bank, who to work for, I don't know but right now the grass is greener on this side!!!

 

[Varmint]

I think a fare few will TP, and given that the Americans are now the second largest group at EK, I think EK will have under estimated the "pull" of the job market back home once it turns around. Not only will they not have the American pilots applying to fill the seats a fare few will be leaving also. Obviously many will stay due to the golden handcuffs but lots will have some serious decisions to make regards staying.

I have to totally agree. I think EK is under estimating the amount of guys who will leave in this next hiring wave. Many of the US pilots here are regional guys whom EK is playing games with regarding their upgrade. The current DEC policy and the stupid rules about previous aircraft weight highlight the issue as well as prejudiced command training and interviews for US regional guys. There are usually 3 things you don't mess with as an employer and those are:

1. Someone's money
2. Career progression opportunities
3. Someone's family

EK is messing with 2 of those so far.

Also, there are alot of guys here who trained in the US and have US certificates in addition to certification from their home country. If they have or can obtain legal right to work in the US many of them may also leave.

 

[Gillegan]

?..There are usually 3 things you don't mess with as an employer and those are:

1. Someone's money
2. Career progression opportunities
3. Someone's family

EK is messing with 2 of those so far.

Good point. When it got to all 3 for me, I left.

A few things to think about: most Americans are at Emirates because they found themselves in a situation that made it preferable to the alternatives. We don't usually have much control over the timing of opportunities and when you go overseas, GOOD opportunities to come home are few and far between. It's great to say I'm going to wait 5 or 10 years and then come home but will the same opportunities exist?

It's been a crazy 20 years in aviation and the one thing that I think we can all take from it is that what we all thought were the rules to live by as far as your career goes no longer apply. Don't necessarily assume that because it was better to leave the US (and the legacies) and go overseas that it will be in the future.

I kind of think that the attractiveness of the ME carriers is fading and that the "place to be" for the next 20 years is probably somewhere else. I suspect that those with training backgrounds are going to have the most opportunities going forward but who knows?