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Mesaba poised to slowdown???

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fowingman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Posts
227
An idea/notion that I dont think many people have considered at XJ is the potential huge slowdown that could ensue at Mesaba. Reason 1. not enough F.O's in the marketplace. Reason 2. Not enough Captains. how does it look to nwa if we are going to be unable to staff aircraft in either seat. maybe a potential holding off on the delivery's until we get things in order?

The ''not enough captains'' is occuring for a bunch of reasons the seat-lock, (yea the great-ole union is going to get it down to 1 year), but still there is a seatlock. and even if the current f.o's who wont work the saab did fly the saab int he left seat, there is still a boat load of 200, and 900's coming EVERY month. there will be a long gap for many f.o's before they have the time to upgrade.
What's with the prostandards J.M last email, I am in agreeance with the idea of experience and just raw total time in 121 makes a difference with regard to upgrading, but this emailing in the fast reads has got to stop, the union is there to help the group of pilots and assist/protect them. a 1,500 hour pilot with no experience in 121 shouldn't upgrade i agree 110%, but there are pleanty of good seasoned guys who are jumping other 121 carriers for the upgrade, scaring qualified f.o's from taking the upgrade is wrong!! my favorite part of his last email " You {as a captain}must now be the expert on the POM, FOM, FARs, TLRs, deicing, contaminated runways, pilot contract, and the list goes on." expert hmm tlr's i have yet to fly with a captain at mesaba in over 4 years that have any idea what the tl'r means.
I challenge the good ole j.m to set the record straight and be honest and not use scare tactics of " pink slips, or your job is on the line", we are all big boys here's. how about a add a boy, great job , or i wish i had the opportunity when i was first joining this company, i cant just think that there isn't justa bit of jelously with j.m , heck i'm sorta ticked when i joined it wasn't that way in the slightest bit!!

A crash, or a major accident can kill a company faster than anything, (valujet, twa) i can't fathom an airline putting apilot in command control if they (airline) wasn't 100% certain that pilot was safe.
 
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An idea/notion that I dont think many people have considered at XJ is the potential huge slowdown that could ensue at Mesaba. Reason 1. not enough F.O's in the marketplace. Reason 2. Not enough Captains. how does it look to nwa if we are going to be unable to staff aircraft in either seat. maybe a potential holding off on the delivery's until we get things in order?

The ''not enough captains'' is occuring for a bunch of reasons the seat-lock, (yea the great-ole union is going to get it down to 1 year), but still there is a seatlock. and even if the current f.o's who wont work the saab did fly the saab int he left seat, there is still a boat of 200, and 900's coming EVERY month. there will be a long gap for many f.o's before they have the time to upgrade.
What's with the prostandards J.M last email, I am in agreeance with the idea of experience and just raw total time in 121 makes a difference with regard to upgrading, but this emailing in the fast reads has got to stop, the union is there to help the group of pilots and assist/protect them. a 1,500 hour pilot with no experience in 121 shouldn't upgrade i agree 110%, but there are pleanty of good seasoned guys who are jumping other 121 carriers for the upgrade, scaring qualified f.o's from taking the upgrade is wrong!! my favorite part of his last email " You {as a captain}must now be the expert on the POM, FOM, FARs, TLRs, deicing, contaminated runways, pilot contract, and the list goes on." expert hmm tlr's i have yet to fly with a captain at mesaba in over 4 years that have any idea what the tl'r means.
I challenge the good ole j.m to set the record straight and be honest and not use scare tactics of " pink slips, or your job is on the line", we are all big boys here's. how about a add a boy, great job , or i wish i had the opportunity when i was first joining this company, i cant just think that there isn't justa big of jelously with j.m , heck i'm sorta ticked when i joined it wasn't that way in the slightest bit!!

A crash, or a major accident can kill a company faster than anything, (valujet, twa) i can't fathom an airline putting apilot in command control if they (airline) wasn't 100% certain that pilot was safe.

Good post man.
 
What's with the prostandards J.M last email, I am in agreeance with the idea of experience and just raw total time in 121 makes a difference with regard to upgrading, but this emailing in the fast reads has got to stop, the union is there to help the group of pilots and assist/protect them. a 1,500 hour pilot with no experience in 121 shouldn't upgrade i agree 110%, but there are pleanty of good seasoned guys who are jumping other 121 carriers for the upgrade, scaring qualified f.o's from taking the upgrade is wrong!! my favorite part of his last email " You {as a captain}must now be the expert on the POM, FOM, FARs, TLRs, deicing, contaminated runways, pilot contract, and the list goes on." expert hmm tlr's i have yet to fly with a captain at mesaba in over 4 years that have any idea what the tl'r means.
I challenge the good ole j.m to set the record straight and be honest and not use scare tactics of " pink slips, or your job is on the line", we are all big boys here's. how about a add a boy, great job , or i wish i had the opportunity when i was first joining this company, i cant just think that there isn't justa bit of jelously with j.m , heck i'm sorta ticked when i joined it wasn't that way in the slightest bit!!

.

The comment about the TLR is pretty strong. You are saying that that no captain you have flown with knows how to use the TLR? Sounds like somebody who rides along in the right seat, but has know idea what the captains are really doing and thinking. Perhaps because you know how to properly do the TLR they don't have to step in. It doesn't mean they don't know how to do it. As far as the union, I think they are bringing up valid points. Many of the younger pilots that might be marginally qualified to upgrade may not understand all of the considerations one needs to think about when accepting an early upgrade. Especially the limited ability the union has to help somebody during the probationary year. As far as the comment about being an "expert" in those areas, he's right on spot. If you feel that those areas are not that important, or that you do not feel that you are an expert in all those areas, perhaps you should reconsider your personal qualifications.
 
Oh great, :D . I'm considering the jump from corporate to the airlines right now and this is what you post? *sigh* you're killin me.

I can say this, the street captains I've spoken with so far have some pretty considerable experience (I know 5) and hopefully mesaba will take advantage of the opportunity to get these guys on line and into the saab fleet before some of your post becomes an issue. Myself and the other canidates are anxious to become a part of a company with good people and what looks to be a bright future.

Personally, I look forward to flying with the lower time guys, I can remember starting off in larger equipment and know that the guy in the left seat can make all the difference in your learning your job, getting comfortable and safe. An arrogant a$$ helps no one, and so far I haven't met any of those at mesaba (remakable, really considering some of the left-seaters I've encountered previously).

Either way, hopefully it will all work out for the better and the company can continue to grow creating more opportunities for everyone there along the way.
 
Hasn't Pinnacle been having staffing issues for a LONG time now? NWA kept them around.
 
Trust me, the only slow down will be caused by the amount of sim time available. I did plenty of 10pm to 2AM in MEM to attest to that.

Crashes don't kill companies, look at Pinnacle/Express crash the Jetstream in Hibbing and then again in the CRJ or Comair in LEX just for an example. TWA and Valujet (now Airtran) had many serious financial problems that were capped off with very high profile and large crashes that further stressed their bad situations.

Unfortunately, XJ is tempting fate in what they are doing. They have little option in todays market. It isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

It is good that you show concern. Never let the company push you to get things done any faster than you are comfortable with. Slow down and work it out. Swallow a little pride and when you aren't sure, ask for help. That is just a small part of being a professional.

I really am on your side guys and wish you the best. Enjoy the ride and laugh off the little sh!t. Most of all FLY SAFE.

Leave them boots on!

Good luck.
 
Wow. I feel singed. I understand the TLR. Come fly with me and I'll explain it to you. I'll explain some other things to you as well.

I don't believe XJ will experience or require an operational slowdown. These are not uncharted waters for the industry. I do believe, however that a number of people from management to the rank and file are going to have to demonstrate judgement, restraint and professionalism in the years ahead.

Other than that, your post has merit.
 
What's a TLR?
Takeoff and landing report. It's all the performance data computed for current conditions and runways to be used for both TO & LDG. Not too difficult, just have to remember all the variables (headwind/tailwind,anti-ice settings,bleed configurations,contamination,de-icing,engine ratings and others just to name a few).
 

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