mesaba buttons

[youngpilot]

I know you all who are so anti-big sky are really proud of the mesaba buttons "Our Profits, Our Jobs". Pull it out in a year or two and think about having not had a job since the last time you wore it. And those of you at mesaba who were furloughed, sorry but join the crowd, quit trying to blame people for it and move forward.

Just for the sake of the industry, don't go around making this a habit. Pilot group against pilot group, union against union. It would be nice if one airline could say, anytime anyone gets any jobs flying anything, it really should be mesaba pilots. After all, isn't every other airline, and for that matter, any other mode of transportation at odds with limiting the profits of the company you work for?

I know all I have done is vent on this board. So maybe I should stop. I don't think reading SOME, not all, of the messages is a very positive or enlightening experience. And maybe those of you that put out such a bad message are actually good people who deserve another chance. So I forgive you for your mistake.

Big Sky, I have you in my thoughts and really hope the best.

 

[saabtrash]

Um, uh, yah, uh, ok.

 

[Mel Sharples]

It was never about the Big Sky pilots. It's about XJ management and NWA management, and to a certain extent, B.S. management.

It's unfortunate that the pilots get caught in the middle. Mesaba's fight was not about trying to stick it to Big Sky. It was about protecting Mesaba's own future and flying.

It sucks that the Big Sky pilots were caught in the middle but don't think ALPA was out to squash them. That was never part of the game. If Mesaba pilots didn't fight, they would be out of jobs very quickly. They had to fight.

Big Sky pilots weren't the target and shouldn't feel like they were.

 

[youngpilot]

saabtrash, the response I expected, thanks for confirming my view of you

Mel, you are right, it's really just an unfortunate position and I know I am the one who really needs to move on. But my point is that there was a choice, and it's not one that I would have been very proud to have made. Mesaba had to look out for itself, and there is no guarantee in a battle, but you have to believe that if you can feel that saving yourself by eliminating others, well it just takes a certain type of person and can put an image on an entire group who does not deserve it. Mesaba pilots are just as good of a group as any other.

 

[saabtrash]

Young pilot, since you are psychic, you probably already know what my next response to you is. Wow that makes it so much easier, thanks.

 

[mesaba2425]

Um, uh, yah, uh, ok.

Don't make fun of saabtrash. That's one of his most comprehendable posts yet.

 

[LivinDaDream]

While I feel for most of the BigSky pilots on a personal level and any pilot having their career stifled is a bad thing; not a single Mesaba Pilot has a thing to feel guilty about.

This was a risk that the BigSky pilots took when they voted for their contract back in 2002. They were warned that this was possible. They were offered alternatives. They chose this path and therefore must bear the risks that go with that decision.

The Union Leadership expended a great deal of resources (time and money) to avoid exactly the situation that has now occurred. They went to Billings and stayed there and made themselves available to discuss any and all options. They had the BigSky union leadership attend the ALPA National BOD meeting in Miami, where they had an opportunity to meet with other regional pilots to discuss their options. One of those options was to ratify the offer of MAIR and risk the future scope by the Mesaba Pilot Group. Unfortunately, that is the path that they chose.

Ultimately the fault all lies on the management of MAIR. They set this whole thing up and forced this outcome. I am not placing the blame at the feet of the BigSky pilots. However, they bear some responsibility in the outcome. The XJ pilots didn't just do something that was looking out for themselves (as YoungPilot said). They did something that protected the entire industry. Any time that an airline or it's parent creates or buys another airline for the "SOLE" purpose of beating down the contracts of others, we ALL should be willing to fight.

As Mel Sharples said, this wasn't about the BigSky pilots. They may end up paying a big price in the end, but that was not the intent.

The bottom line is that profits which were earned through the sacrifice of Mesaba employees was used to buy and prop up a failing airline. Then that failing airline was used to undermine the jobs of those that were keeping it alive. Basically every penny that a Mesaba pilot made for our shareholders was being sent to Billings to keep that airline afloat, only to have their subindustry contract waved in their face as a threat. That threat has been eliminated.

Those buttons were appropriate and I wore mine with pride. If it hadn't been for OUR profits, the BigSky pilots would have been out of JOBS in October of 2002. Perhaps they should be thanking us for keeping them employed for the last 18 months.

 

[youngpilot]

sorry livindadream, won't be thanking you anytime soon. And try to ease off the ego thing, it sounds silly.

We chose our path and you chose yours. Good luck.

 

[DTWFO]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Mesaba profits still being used to prop up Big Sky??

 

[Mel Sharples]

Big Sky has yet to turn a profit since being owned by MAIR. Neither MAIR nor Big Sky likes to admit that, but it's true.

You can see the latest for yourself by reading the MAIR Holdings earnings report.

Again, this does not have to be Mesaba pilots vs. Big Sky. It's MANAGEMENT sticking it to everyone. You can't blame Big Sky pilots for feeling caught in the middle but by the same token, Mesaba pilots shouldn't be blamed for not wanting to be taken out at the knees after working so hard.

This is just a crappy reality of the aviation world. Don't forget, guys, we're all on the same team here.

Youngpilot, I understand your frustration. I really do. But LivinDaDream makes some good points. The Mesaba pilots aren't trying to say they are better than Big Sky pilots (and I don't think Livin meant to come off that way). Mesaba pilots just don't want to see the money they worked so hard to make line someone else's safe. That's all.

It just sucks management makes this personal. I won't apologize for those pilots who do respond with a-hole comments, but please remember this is not a pilot vs. pilot fight. That's what managements want so we all turn on each other. Don't let them win!

Peace. . .

 

[LivinDaDream]

Well said, Mel Sharples.

My response was merely a reaction to youngpilot's implication that we should feel guilty. I'm sorry, but I really don't. If we hadn't reached out to the BigSky pilots early in the process and offered to bring them along with us and to support them 100% in a fight against OUR mutual management group, I might see this differently. We warned them about trusting this management. The BigSky Union Leadership refused that offer and chose to lead the pilots down a different path. I don't think that there is a single pilot at XJ that didn't feel that once the BigSky leadership shoved this agreement down their throats, there was really only one inevitable outcome; BigSky scoped out of the picture. Your Union Leadership was informed of the risks of that path and your Chairman not only made his decision, he lied to our Union Leadership of his intentions. He should feel guily. He knowingly lead you guys to this outcome

From a legal standpoint, a merger became impossible as part of our negotiations because of the tough criteria of proving "single carrier" status. The only 2 alternatives that we had any influence over were to either scope BigSky completely out of business OR limit BigSky to a point that they were no longer a threat to our careers.

In fact, they still have an opportunity for this to come out okay for the BigSky pilots. Of course, as with this whole mess, the outcome will hinge on MAIR's true intentions with regards to BigSky. If BigSky is truly a potential growth vehicle for MAIR, then at some point we will be approached with a merger proposal. Should a merger occur, the BigSky pilots will be brought under the XJ contract and the scope of BigSky will be a moot point. However, if MAIR just bought BigSky as a whipsaw threat/alter-ego, then MAIR will divest themselves of BigSky, which they would have done with or without our new scope language.

Personally, I would love to see BigSky awarded a huge Code share agreement with a major outside of NWA. I would love to see a merger of the pilot groups. I would love to see a 100 new jets in Billings. There is still the potential for an upside in this deal. Let's just hope that the idiots at our holding company can figure this out.