Mesa Training Contract

[Flying"C"ranchr]

Does anybody have prior experience with the Mesa Training Contract. I'm thinking positive that I will get a call from Flight Options in the future. I'm just wondering if I'll need to get a lawyer if Mesa attempts to enforce the contract. I recently came over from Air Midwest (BE-1900D) to the ERJ.

In any other situation I'd repay the remainder of the contract. However, I've been shorted on per diem and treated less than human long enough. Such as calling me late at night the night prior to starting a five day trip and saying "your show time has been moved up 4 hours"... with no chance of getting a jumpseat and having to drive 3 to 4 hours and only getting 3 hours sleep.

Not to mention, Mesa is allowing pilots from our senority list to go to Freedom without loss of Mesa benefits. Finally, I have little faith that our contract negotiations are going to be fruitful anytime soon, if ever.

Not to sound bitter... just looking at the future. Inadequate duty-rigs, shift-rigs, no jumpseat policy, etc. is not a good work environment and not a good career move. Mesa is a great place to build flight time and experience. But, I can't see myself working there for more than 2 or 3 years. It will be 2 years on Oct 30, 2002. This includes my 7 months furlough.

I recently flew with a captain who has been with the company for 15 years... he usually gets 12 days off per bid. He doesn't seem to mind. He's 57 years old and never been married. I guess if I were single, I probably wouldn't mind the unpredictable schedule either.

Anybody have any experience with the contract? I'd appreciate any recommendations... ideas. Regardless, the worse case is I make a monthly contribution to Mesa and start working on a career at a great company.

My Best,
Rancher

 

[King Nothing]

Without seeing the contract it's hard to say, however, when you quit and they drag you into the office threating you with enforcement of the contract, tell them your going to the press with your gripes.

KN

 

[750driver]

No offense to you personally "C" but they do have recourse to come after you for the remainder of the contract. Some companies will not want the headache, but some will press it legally.

Generally, I would suggest that a new hire not accept a position if they can't keep the commitment. I would imagine you knew the terms before you accepted, although I do not agree with the use of training contracts in aviation. Best of luck to you.

 

[King Nothing]

For Constitutional reasons, you cannot be made to perform a contract of employment, however, you can be made to pay damages for a breach, or pay on a promissory note. Because of the employment laws of many states and the difficulty in characterizing the training itself, which benefits the employer, as the legal "consideration" required to form a contract, many operators circumvent the issue by drafting promissory notes that do not in any way mention the employment relationship -- they are simply notes which specify that payment will be made for "consideration received," which waives any argument about what the consideration was and whether is was or was not actually received.

I've seen contracts that require the pilot to waive all of his/her other rights, such as diligence (consulting an attorney), notice or demand for payment on the note prior to seeking court enforcement (service of process), all defenses (died, disabled, or having paid off the note), jurisdiction and venue objections to any court chosen by the employer. The first time you would hear about enforcement would be when you receive the final order of the court. Pressure exerted on pilots to sign such contracts does not constitute "duress" in a legal sense -- only the threat of physical violence constitutes duress.

So how do you get out of the contract, look for a breach. Letters accompanying or statements that breached would constitute a cause of action for fraud including the signature on the promissory note. But remember, action on the note would have already proceeded and this would have to be a separate action brought by you.

It is basic to the foundations of our Constitution, our economy and our society that the individual has a right to maximize his/her interest in his/her labor. The corporation makes decisions in its own interest to maximize profits; the individual must be free to do so also, and should not be asked to insure the employer against the risk that it is creating an untenable workplace. If you don't like the job (or have safety issues), you should be free to leave, without being required to reimburse the company for training that will expire and you may or may not be able to use elsewhere. Being asked to subsidize the company's ordinary business expense is well beyond the scope of an employee's responsibility -- he/she has already dedicated his/her time and expertise at the employer's direction for the benefit of the company.

Just my .02cents. Oh, and as I mentioned before, threaten to go to the press with safety concerns. I know of one person who used this tactic and prevailed, they simply dropped the hole issue.

KN

 

[dondk]

MESA Training Contract

As being a former MESA I can relate and understand your situation....

I was in the 1900 less than a year when I left (about 9 months)... Never had them come after me for the balance of the contract.

I know of about 4-5 others that left also in less than a year also and MESA never came after them either. Some were FO's, some were Captains, most were about 5-7 months into the contract when they bolted.

I know of 1 case of a guy getting his type and walking 2 weeks later (never flew a revenue trip)... He was threatened, nasty letters, and 6 months later they dropped it...

I do not know IF any of this helps, but you know MESA. Ask around the crew room, you will hear 1 or 2 stories of guys getting nailed but you probably know personally a dozen who have bolted without a problem

 

[WileE]

Look at it this way.

Mesa is notoriously cheap. If they can get you to pay a few thousand bucks without any effort on their part, they will. If you refuse, it seems highly unlikely that they would actually pay lawyers to take you to court for what would probably turn out as costing way more than what you will owe on the contract.

It's not as if Mesa has a history of fighting for anything on so called "principles".

 

[Flying"C"ranchr]

Thanks for the replies

To everyone who responded... thank you. Everyone's insight is greatly appreciated.

My Best,
Ranchr