MESA TA passed?

[Prop Trash]

I heard the MESA TA was ratified. If that's the case, I just want to thank the MESA pilots who voted in the affirmative. You've just made the ongoing negotiations at my company very difficult.

 

[azpilot]

Mesa Air pilots ratify 5-year labor contract
Tuesday March 18, 2:09 pm ET


PHOENIX, March 18 (Reuters) - Mesa Air Group Inc. (NasdaqNM:MESA - News) said on Tuesday that its 1,300 pilots have ratified a new five-year labor agreement by a vote of 79 percent.

The pilots are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (News - Websites). The airline did not release any details of the new contract.

"This is truly one of the rare examples of a win-win situation," Mesa Chief Executive Jonathan Ornstein said of the deal.

Mesa operates 124 aircraft as America West Express, US Airways Express, Frontier JetExpress, Midwest Airlines and Mesa Airlines.

 

[surplus1]

A victory for ALPA & JO. A defeat for the Mesa pilots. A detriment to and stumbling block for all other regionals.

 

[asarjfo]

Does anyone have the details of the TA?

 

[Prop Trash]

Originally posted by Surplus1
A victory for ALPA

Why do you consider this a victory for ALPA? The ratified TA obviously goes against ALPA's plan of "pattern bargaining."

 

[altimaklr]

Sad. Mesa pilots are pathetic, they deserve their $20K per year.

 

[mckpickle]

Hope they deserve living in base because they will be hard pressed to get on my airplane. Not starting a war but they did what they had to. Im doing what I have to. People can not be rewarded for stupidity.

 

[Boeingman]

My sister airline CALEX will now face a daunting, if not impossible task to improve their pay and working conditions.

 

[cl-65link]

On another note the pilots at AWA just said NO.

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Jumpseat is now offically closed to Mesa pilots.

 

[King2345]

New Low!

Mesa, you just brought this industry to the whore level or your level. Have some respect for yourselfs. You guys are the biggest joke in the industry and you wonder why nobody talks to you guys in the crew rooms. You guys had your chance to improve on a contract and you let the industry down. My jump seat is also closed to MESA pilots.

 

[I.P. Freley]

???

I've been hearing for weeks (months?) about this horrible deal that Mesa was going to vote on. This thread, and another one with something like 50 responses in ONE DAY, basically calls them whores.

Unfortunately, not one person has actually posted the TERMS of this contract they just agreed to.

Will someone, ANYONE, please post those terms so those of us who have no idea what they voted in can come to their own conclusions?

 

[sf3boy]

As I do not know all the details for the TA, I do beleive that per diem went up from $1 to $1.15 per hour. Very sad.

Apparently when the Mesa pilots voted on line for this thing, they could print off a page that showed that they voted no for the TA. When a Mesa pilots asks for the jumpseat, reply with: "ID, Certificate, ALPA card, and your VOTE NO card please."

 

[asarjfo]

Re: ???

I've been hearing for weeks (months?) about this horrible deal that Mesa was going to vote on. This thread, and another one with something like 50 responses in ONE DAY, basically calls them whores.

Unfortunately, not one person has actually posted the TERMS of this contract they just agreed to.

Will someone, ANYONE, please post those terms so those of us who have no idea what they voted in can come to their own conclusions?

I will second that motion. I have looked everywhere for some information on the TA, but I have found nothing.

Somebody PLEASE post the details of the TA!

 

[Prop Trash]

Here's what they voted for:

Section 1: Recognition

• New NMB certificate number for:
  -Mesa Airlines
  -Air Midwest
  -CCAir
  -Freedom Airlines
• All flying performed by "Mesa Air Group" Pilots
• Length of wet lease/contract flying time now 60 days versus 90 days
• No creation of "alter-ego" airlines
• "Successorship" and "Transfer of Assets" language
• Protection of pilots if Mesa Air Group acquires/transfers subsidiaries
• Allows pilots the opportunity to follow aircraft if assets are
  transferred

Section 2: Definitions

• "Company" - now includes:
  -Mesa Airlines
  -Air Midwest
  -CCAir
  -Freedom Airlines
• Any other airlines acquired or established by Mesa Air Group
• "Pilot" - now references "Mesa Air Group"
• Other New Definitions reflect FAA training terms

Section 3: Compensation

• Pay increases are guaranteed
• New rate increases every 18 months
• Addition of Company's 97.5% Controllable Cancellation pay
• Controllable defined as:
  -Schedule adjustments
  -Mechanical
  -Aircraft damage
  -Crew
  -Historic average from Mar 2000 to Oct 2002 98.1%
  -Of the 32 months, 8 months would not have met the requirements
• Company will now pay 150% for all open time flying, including Junior Availability

Section 4: Minimum Bid Period Guarantee

Current Book

Section 5: Expenses

• Rate of $1.15/hour with annual increase based upon CPI
• Language added requiring the Company and Association to meet regarding any lodging concerns
• Transportation for PHX based pilots from PHX to Williams Gateway Training Facility
• Moving expenses:
  Company pays up to 9000 lbs of household goods through an agreed upon moving company, or Company will pay an allowance plus $500 if pilot self moves with an agreed upon truck/van rental (Ryder, U-Haul)

Section 6: Deadhead

Current Book

Section 7: Vacation

• Vacation week Sunday through Saturday
• All 52 weeks eligible for bid
• Cancellation notice
• 4 weeks, previously 2 weeks
• Any documented non-refundable deposit reimbursed for cancelled vacations (except for voluntary training)
• Annual bid

Section 8: Sick Leave

• Sick leave buy back program (productivity incentives)
• "Catastrophic Illness Protection"

Section 9: Leaves of Absence

• Jury Duty may be vacation or sick leave

Section 10: Physical Examinations

• Incorporates System Board settlement
• Chief Pilot's or designee's request for doctor's notes with
  reasonable cause

Section 11: Training

• Notification Requirements
• 7 days for training
• 5 days for PC/PT
• considered notified until returned to line
• Training contracts are now straight line amortization
• 50% reduction for 45 days notification of resignation
• Set dollar amounts for Jet, TP 20-40 seat, TP 0-19 seat
• SA transportation to training center in PHX for PHX based pilots

Section 12: Hours of Service

• Minimum Days Off
  -Line Holders: minimum 10 days off per bid in domicile or TDY domicile
  -Reserve/Mixed Line Holder: minimum of 8 days off per bid in domicile or TDY domicile
  -Pilots in training current practice

Section 13: Scheduling

• Consecutive days off to 3 groups of 3 days for lineholders
  (Company's best effort)
• Consecutive days of to 2 groups of 3 days for reserves (to the extent possible)

New Timeline for Scheduling Distribution

• CB=Current Bargaining Agreement, TA=Tentative agreement
• Pilots required to fly carryover trips
• During Integration, FAR conflicts will be resolved by dropping either shifts or segments
• Uncovered flying created during integration will be
  assigned to pilots, in the following order:
  -Line Holders
  -Mixed line holders
  -For IOE or consolidation
  -Reserve
• Call Me First (CMF)/Call Me Last (CML)
• Extended Reserve Call Out provision
• Ready Reserve incorporated
• Company has right to reserve up to 5% of all known flying
  for consolidation only
• Continuous Duty Overnight cannot be scheduled for more
  than 14 hours of continuous duty

Section 14: Transfer to Non Flying or Supervisory Duty

• Management/Supervisory pilot return
• Will return to a vacancy as per Section 23
• Previously, came back solely on seniority
• Pilots who transfer between the training department and the line
• Instructors awarded domiciles in accordance with seniority
• Now paid according to their equipment and seat as per Section 23
• Instructors will not appear on the bid roster for bidding a line when assigned to the Training Department
• Instructors that are not in the domicile for the entire bid, will not be on the roster
• Instructors returning to their domicile in the middle of a bid, will be assigned reserve until entitled to bid a line

Section 15: Miscellaneous Flying

• Dual qualifications
  -No dual qualifications required (aircraft)
  -Only for Supervisory pilots
  -Previously for training pilots

Section 16: Seniority

• All reference to Mesa Airlines, now Mesa Air Group
• Posting of Seniority List
  -Now on computer
  -Previously via bulletin board

Section 17: Furlough and Recall

• Unlimited recall duration (previously 6 years)
  Recall bypass rights
• all junior pilots to furlough are recalled at 12 months from date of furlough

Section 18: Grievances

• Attempt to resolved issues with department supervisor

Section 19: Discipline and Discharge

• No suspension will be without pay pending an investigation
• Exception, an immediate FAA certificate action for safety issues

Section 20: System Bard of Adjustment

• Language changed to current practice

Section 21: Agency Shop and Dues Check Off

• Inclusion of ALPA PAC dues check off
• Complete membership information provided monthly

Section 22: General

• Commuter Policy
• Crew lounge, language requiring cooperation between the company and the Association

Section 23: Filing of Vacancies

• Permanent Vacancy
  -more than 112 days (4 bid periods)
  -previously 120 days
• Temporary Vacancy
  -14 to 112 days
  -Previously 14 to 120 days
• Posting of temporary vacancy language
  -No less than 3 days
  -Previously 72 hours
• Vacancies postings require a 10 day notice, previously 7 days
• New submission of bid will be via:
  -Fax
  -Electronic
  -Certified Mail
• Car mileage allowance rate while on TDY CONUS
  -Previously, 0.20/mile
• Equipment Commitments
  -18 months for Turboprop CA
  -36 months for Jet CA
• TP F/O can only move to CA on same equipment or to CA on jet
  -ERJ pilot can move to CRJ (fleet combination)
  -CRJ CA can NOT move to ERJ, except substitution/displacement
• No seat locks
• Pilots will be trained and qualified on all aircraft derivatives

Section 24: Insurance Benefits

• After 24 months the Company will guarantee a 2% match on 401(K)

Section 25: Duration

• 54 months from date of signing

 

[King2345]

Mesa

Notice how they don't post the pay rates out of all that information. I read a letter from JO saying that they needed to be the lowest paid pilots out there in order to compete and get more jets. I think the MESA pilots unfortuantly agree. Sounds like a whore to me.

 

[eaglefly]

The pay rates are ROCK BOTTOM.

The per Diem is ROCK BOTTOM.

but most importantly the work rules allow for plenty of "interpretation" by management, so line holders will be abused as minimum staffing will be the norm.

poor reserves will be beaten to death with 4 two-day off blocks per month (for crap pay).

By the summer the pilots of Mesa will be horrified at what they have done to themselves.

Thankfully, they shouldn't be whining on any websites as they did it to themselves.

 

[big dog1]

this is a sad day for MESA pilots, I voted no this TA was crap our MEC is joke and if alpa(DW) sign it I will be sending out the resume. Fock ALPA just might have to go to Cathay! Go to this web site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freemesaairlinesforum/?yguid=124225566 let JO and the yes voter know how you feel!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freemesaairlinesforum/?yguid=124225566

 

[stillaboo]

Confused

The new agreement sets the bar pretty low, and will undoubtably be looked to by other managment in concessionary talks.

Could someone please explain to me why WN's 'low pay and high utilization' contract is acceptable on mainline, while Mesa's isn't worth the paper it's printed on at the regional level.

 

[Cardinal]

For one thing WN's pay isn't all that low. Management is able to "make it up" to the pilots to a degree with stock options/retirement, which, due to the consistently impressive financial performance over there, actually works and pays off. Further their contracts improve notably with each renewal, and they don't make concessions to management merely because management made it sting a little (Freedom).

However you'll note that in almost every mainline negotiation cycle management points to Southwest's labor costs and moans that the employess need to match them. United's recently leaked plan continued the tradition of treating WNs costs as the bar under which United's employees must slink.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Management is able to "make it up" to the pilots to a degree with stock options/retirement,


stock options huh? is that going to have any value when mesa hits the crapper?

 

[Cardinal]

That's exactly my point. It works at Southwest. It DOES NOT WORK anywhere else in the airline industry, because no one else posseses the financial fundamentals that drive the stock. To clarify, Mesa has precious little in the way of justification for accepting a subpar contract.

 

[Checknsix]

Ok guys,

Maybe I can offer a little insight as to why this piece of crap TA passed at Mesa today. By the way, I fly for Mesa and I voted no.

ALPA and our MEC came in and did a road show tour, basically telling us that we either sign this thing, or JO would eventually move all of the flying to Freedom...a non-union airline. No, it would not have happened overnight, but there was a real possibility that most of the Mesa flying would have been covered in 1-2 years. The CEO even threatened to dump the airline and keep the equipment for a leasing company. We just watched JO put CCAir, one of the MAG certificates, out of business this past year. Their contract was better than Mesa's.

We got a few work rule improvements, on what was already a very poor first ALPA-negotiated contract. Some of you guys have had the opportunity to improve your contracts over a much greater length of time. Please consider how young the contract is and how bad the original Mesa flying was.

My feelings...I was sold out. Not necessarily by my co-workers, but certainly by the MEC and ALPA. With the road show, they put the fear of god into young captains here, that know nothing but flying. These guys were sure they would end up on the street, with thousands of other higher time pilots, and many without an alternate education to feed their families. I am personally not happy with, what appears to be a weak negotiating team. A consideration for you guys coming into negotiations...follow United's lead and hire somebody other than ALPA to negotiate your contract. At least you then know that you will be represented with no possible hidden agenda.

I am not making excuses for the way my pilot group voted. I think we screwed up. But I will tell you that this was a lousy time to be negotiating and we have a very cunning CEO. I don't think a more mature pilot group could have been played this easily. When it comes to be your turn, please remember what we have gone through as a lesson learned the hard way, and if possible, put the negotiations off until there is a little light at the end of the tunnel for the airlines. And for guys at CHQ, etc that are fighting the alter-ego airline problems, don't let anybody tell you that ironclad scope language is worth more than QOL. I'm sure a courtroom will be proving this to us during the course of this contract.

I truly hope that our mistake does not turn the jumpseat into a pissing match. This lifestyle sucks enough as it is. I don't believe that the pilots at Mesa want to take your contract flying based on lower paid labor. I would much rather take your job by offering a higher quality product. But until all of us have had an opportunity to negotiate our contracts in good economic conditions a few times, there will not be a level playing field.

You are welcome on my airplane. You are even welcome to bend my ear about this TA. Take the opportunity ASAP though...I am taking a serious look at getting out of this ratsh*t business and finding one that values my time and my family.

Regards - Checknsix

 

[ACABlueridge]

Enjoy guys

Well, all I can say about this is enjoy your 8 days off a month and your whopping $1.15 per diem. This is truly a milestone you guys have reached, especially while the rest of your Alpa brother and sisters negotiated 11 days off a month years ago.


I just hope that know one does any complaining about quality of life and pay in front of a pilot that voted NO on this. That would make for a heated discussion.

 

[nimtz]

checkinsix,

A very mature reply to some of the frustrations we all are feeling right now. It is fairly obvious you are one of the smart ones out there. I feel for you man. I couldn't imagine working under a contract like that for 5 more years. Hopefully we can get this ship righted in the coming years and pricks like Orenstein will be tossed out where they deserve.

 

[nonstop]

Wow! That contract is such a disgrace it borders on hilarious. Livin' the dream boys. Well, at least finding a new career that pays more and has a better quality of life will be NO PROBLEM for you guys. If I was a MESA pilot I'd be hitting the street. At least you've got a head start on the rest of us. I hope my pilot group, if in a similar position, has the nads to vote no and shut the place down rather than accept anything even remotely close to that piece of shiet. Sorry to those of you who were up for the fight but didn't have the chance.

 

[Uncle Don]

Well, not just the Mesa pilots are screwed, but we all are now.

Mesa will be flying 70-90 seat jets at 1900 pay rates. They should be be flown at F-100 rates or at least 110+ / hr.

Now all regionals and majors BEWARE...MESA may not have alter-ego carriers, but they have just becuase the WHORES of the industry and will so be showing up on your door step doing your flying for 1/2 your pay.

MESA has just started the D-scale of the industry and is leading the race for the bottom !!!!

GOD LUCK for US ALL!!!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I find it so ironic that when the regional guys complain about the effect Mesa has on their compensation, it is taken as gospel, but when I make the same complaints about the lcc's effect on the majors, I am villified as an "arrogant a-hole." I fail to see the difference between the two examples.

 

[Tim47SIP]

FDJ

You sir are in no way an A hole. I believe that most people have agreed that the LCC's are the root of mainlines problems. If you can remember back just after 911, most of the mainline guys were blameing the regionals for the root cause and it was further debated that it was not the regional guys but the LCC's that caused the downward pressure on the mainline guys. So with that, I fully agree with you.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Thanks Tim,

If you are interested in people who do think I'm a flaming A-hole, go on over to the interview section of these boards. Then select the "Major" board.

Under the threads "Airtran headed west" and USA Today Article: Being a pilot just isn't" you'll be treated to a few people who have taken a strong dislike to me! It would be kind of fun to watch if the threat weren't so real.