Mesa About Hiring United Pilots

[big dog1]

Hiring of United guys - From Aviation Daily
No Word From Mesa About Hiring United Pilots
By Lori Ranson
August 19, 2003


Management at Mesa hasn't approached its pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) about hiring furloughed United pilots for 70-seat jet flying, even though Mesa aims to launch United Express service in September (DAILY, July 31).

United's revised scope agreement, approved by its pilots, requires affiliates flying 70-seat jets to offer jobs to furloughed mainline pilots. United has furloughed about 1,643 pilots.

Union leaders at Mesa recently told pilots the carrier could hire furloughed United pilots with hire dates and seniority subject to the current collective bargaining agreement at Mesa. Union leadership noted that "unlike" the Jets For Jobs protocol in the US Airways contract, United's scope doesn't specify a ratio of captain positions or minimum pay rates for furloughed pilots.

If United presses for certain preferential treatment for its furloughed pilots, both pilots and management at Mesa would have to approve changes to their current contract. Mesa also recalled pilots from its defunct CCAIR subsidiary for future hiring, an ALPA spokeswoman said.

Mesa is slated to fly 35 jets for United -- 20 70-seat planes and 15 50-seat aircraft. Last month, CEO Jonathan Ornstein said the carrier aimed to start flying the 70-seaters in September, with 15 in service by the mid-Fiscal Year 2004. Mesa started turboprop flights from Denver in United's network last month, and has canceled only two flights.

 

[blzr]

Both Pilots and management would have to approve changes to the current contract

That's too funny. You wouldn't change it for yourself, but you MIGHT change it for United furloughees?!?

Don't hold your breath Big Dog

 

[lionflyer]

How many United guys actually want to go work for Mesa? I can't imagine very many.

 

[Heavy Set]

Flying a 70-seat RJ as an FO would be better than sitting on your arse... Just ask the USAirways guys.

 

[blzr]

Yeah, but those Airways guys make a lot more money on unemployment, and get to stay home with the family and not sitting in CLT and PHL watching those flights cancel.

 

[Beantown]

Yeah, but those Airways guys make a lot more money on unemployment, and get to stay home with the family and not sitting in CLT and PHL watching those flights cancel.

Again, this is not a Mesa issue but a regional airline issue. No mainline pilot wants to start over, at the bottom of ANY regional. Ya, even the greater then god, WO's. -Bean

ps And I forgot, the WO never cancel a flight.(again, god must maintain the aircraft) Maybe if U made you fly with zero spares you would understand what's going on at Mesa. It's not Mesa's choice, it's U's.

 

[blzr]

Maybe if we had a CRAPPY airline, Seagull would give us all those jets. I can't speak for ALG or PSA, but PDT is very short on planes, pilots, and parts and out completion factor and on time performance is still very high. Bottom line, we get the pax where they need to be.

We were in ERI the other night, and my god, you would have thought MESA was the Taliban. Those people..station people and pax hate you guys. Same people that were wnating those RJ's so bad actually got on a Dash and said to our F/A " thank goodness it's not one of those jets or I would miss my connection again." and It's only an 80 mile flight.

You guys ROCK.

I hope all the mainline guys United and Airways have to work for you guys.

 

[Beantown]

Maybe if we had a CRAPPY airline, Seagull would give us all those jets. I can't speak for ALG or PSA, but PDT is very short on planes, pilots, and parts and out completion factor and on time performance is still very high. Bottom line, we get the pax where they need to be.

We were in ERI the other night, and my god, you would have thought MESA was the Taliban. Those people..station people and pax hate you guys. Same people that were wnating those RJ's so bad actually got on a Dash and said to our F/A " thank goodness it's not one of those jets or I would miss my connection again." and It's only an 80 mile flight.

You guys ROCK.

I hope all the mainline guys United and Airways have to work for you guys.

And three weeks ago my fiancé and I were going from ROC to CLT via PIT on a Dash8 (ALG or PDT). Everyone was on and waiting and waiting and waiting. APU was broke so it was HOT!. Finally they deplane us saying that there is a mechanical problem and that the flight is X-C. Everyone was cursing US Airways (they don't know any better), and those old beat us Dash8's. Luckily there was a Mesa CRJ going to PHL that was about to leave (early at that) and they were able to fit some of us on last second.

My point, sh!t happens in this business. Everyone has stories they can tell (especially if they hate a company for other reasons and want to make them look as bad as they can). If you want to prove something why don't you look up the numbers for Mesa and PDT last yr and post them for us all to see. My guess is that PDT will be better but not as much as you would like everyone on here to think. Fly safe. -Bean

 

[blzr]

Everyone was cursing US Airways (they don't know any better),

That's why we try so hard to make the distinction to our customers at every turn. We are Airways... They are... Temps. That's what Mesa is isn't it, Temps. Contrct labor, it's hard to care about the company when you aren' part of it.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Funny, innit, how many of the "temps" kick your butts every single month in on-time performance and completion factor?

Yep, we don't care. Don't care at all.

The only time I personally was ever left stranded by Airways was by, whoops!, a PDT Dash-8. That's a distinction that I'm sure was not missed by ANYBODY, since they were in fact pointing out left and right "Piedmont Airlines" right up until they deplaned everyone after sweating them out for over half an hour. At least I was able to (offline) jumpseat home on ComAir, of all companies, who were not only on-time but were more than willing to help a brutha out.

Go figure.

Thanks for your incredibly condescending attitude. I've met several very pleasant and professional PDT crews at various outstations and on overnights (even shared a few brews with some of them), but apparently you aren't one of them. Strangely, they actually recognized that their OWN COMPANY sold them out, and didn't blame the "temps" for "stealing their flying."

Maybe you should be more concerned about the LCC's that are chipping away at Airways, not the ones that are flying under "your" colors and helping to keep the mothership afloat.

 

[lionflyer]

"Flying a 70-seat RJ as an FO would be better than sitting on your arse... Just ask the USAirways guys."

...For $20 somthing an hour, segment pay only comutting to wherever on reserve. No Thanks!!! I'll go back to bartending or waiting tables and sleep in my own every night.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Oh goody...

Another post-fight about "regional" guys, who replaced Mainline flying, telling ANYONE about being undercut. I love this part! BTW The sooner I can end my association with USAirways the better. The level of mediocre product, served up by a large number of cranky old employees, is about all I can stand. I have been corned DOZENS of times, by rightfully angry pax, about the misery served up by ALL LEVELS of USAir. It is a shame because it could be a great operation, but far too many US emplyees are unpleasent to down right RUDE to the people who hold the key to their future; CUSTOMERS! I have been commuting/non-reving, for a long time, and increasingly on the "LCC" carriers who are awsome! No barking, no "Its not my responsability" etc. JetBlue, Southwest, AirTran and a host of others will be picking over the carcass of USAirways in no time; the free market will bury the old heads. A few years ago I gave a family a ride, from the airport, to the hotel after a mechanical became an "Act of God". The US gate folks wouldn't provide ANY info on the hotels, cab vouchers etc they were due for the cancellation. They were happy for the info and help, but what followed was classic.."Oh you work for US Air?....You must be new.....we never get any help from them!!!!!!!US AIR R.I.P.

 

[bogberto]

They get more than $20/hr. Mesa pays left seat at Capt rate and right seat at FO rate, then the right seaters get a "make-up" check from U to cover the difference.

What's truely sad is that U Mgmnt is selling out the entire company. On yet another glamorous early a.m. show in DTW, arriving to find a broken airplane, we suggested that the agents there complain directly to Siegal about our lackluster performance.

Well, one of them already had. Siegal's response: "DTW is a Northwest hub, so we're not interested in fixing the problem."

Nice. That's a leader.

 

[RUhiring?]

They get more than $20/hr. Mesa pays left seat at Capt rate and right seat at FO rate, then the right seaters get a "make-up" check from U to cover the difference.

I think not. The j4j FO's get the top FO rate from Mesa. There is no additional check from U.

As for the previous quote about making $19/hour being better than sitting on your arse, that's wrong too. It was said before, but PA unemployment pays much better than Mesa and I'm home every night. I won't even take the Mesa j4j position. Flying isn't that important to me.

 

[Beantown]

I won't even take the Mesa j4j position. Flying isn't that important to me.

RUhiring, Are you planning on taking the J4J at PSA? -Bean

 

[blzr]

I.P Freely...

You are a temp, just live with it. If airways gets mid-atlantic off the ground, you will be gone, maybe flying for United, or America west feed. If Mid-Atlantic doesn't go, Airways will likely not make it anyway, which I believe will be the case, You will be flying feed for United and America west. Case in point, you are a temp.

PDT completion factor from our website.

On Time Goal: 100% Actual: 97.3% (mgt is appalled)

Completion Factor Goal: 100% Actual: 98.5%

Come on Feely.... Post yours.

Set 'em up, they just get knocked out of the park.

 

[RUhiring?]

RUhiring, Are you planning on taking the J4J at PSA? -Bean

At this time, yes...my preference form does show that I would like to be called for a job at PSA. Please don't tell me it's similar to Mesa.

 

[I.P. Freley]

blzr,

Nothing like believing cooked numbers "from our website" to cloud the mind, huh?

You post numbers like that without telling us what time period, whether the delays are "controllable" or "uncontrollable", whether "on time" is departure, arrival, "real" on-time (vs. DOT on-time"), etc. It's also interesting that these are the only numbers you wish to supply.

It really is true... There are three types of lies: Lies, d****ed lies, and statistics.

For the record, I will supply your (PDT's) REAL numbers for the month of August to date, along with your ranking amongst the 14 carriers that are in those rankings. For those who wish to know, these are the hard numbers that include all controllable delays (flight crew is late, for instance) and uncontrollable delays (WX, ATC, etc.). I use August numbers only because that is all I have available to me at this moment.

You claimed 97.3% on-time?

Your on-time departures (D5, as in within 5 minutes of sked) are running at 81%. Not bad, I guess, as that ranks you 2nd.

Your on-time arrivals (A14, as in within 14mins of sked) are running at 79%. Still not bad, but your ranking drops to 4th.

Your completion factor is 95%. That also ranks you 4th.

As for "my company", we rank 4th, 3rd, and 2nd in those categories, respectively. Most notable is our completion factor of 98.5%, which interestingly enough is what you claim for "your company".

So, what did we learn here... Using only those categories, since you chose to, you average a ranking of 3.3. "My company" averages a ranking of 3.0. So, blzr, you are doing worse than this particular contract carrier.

The good news for you is that you are by far the best of the WO's. PSA, for instance, is truly in the dumper by these rankings, hovering right above Air Midwest and Midway. ALG is about mid-pack, I think, I didn't write those numbers down.

What this also tells is that there are contract carriers doing more reliable business than either PDT or "my company". TransStates, for instance, is better than either of us. So much for our (or their) "not caring".

Looks like the only thing getting "knocked out of the park" is your argument. And don't bother with saying (again) that we are "temp work". If that is the best you can come back with, don't waste our time. It adds nothing to the discussion and merely makes you look petty. Give us evidence that the contract carriers as a whole don't care or don't do a good job... If you can.

 

[bogberto]

Contract workers, temp carriers. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the free enterprise system!

Yeah. Not every major wants to own their regional. That's why MAG, TSA, CHQ, etc, exist.