Mem 36L Eng Fire & Fail & AutoPilot & FMS out

[hmmm]

Need help from experienced long term aviators that have been taking Captain check rides for many years in 121 jet service.

Missed Approach Memphis TENN ILS 36L Index 11-6 16Jan04

I am conducting a Missed on 36L traffic on runway 1800 RVR

Go Around Go Around Thrust Positive Rate Gear Up

Speed Mode Bug V2 Right engine Fails, Right Engine Catches Fire

@ 400agl Heading Mode 1/2 Bank White Needles Auto Tune (FMS CDI)

@ 600agl Autopilot On oops No Auto Pilot, Whats the problem.
Non flying Pilot "Right Engine Fire and Fail
Flying Pilot "Do the memory items for Engine Fire

@ 1000 agl (1300 MSL) Flying Pilot calls "ALT Mode" NFP selects Alt Mode and continues Memory items for Engine Fire

@ V2 plus 20 "Flaps UP" NFP then continue memory items

@ VT " FP calls "Select Speed Mode Deselect Half Bank Set Max Continuous Thrust, I have the radios Complete the QRH for Engine Fire and follow that with the QRH for Auto Pilot Failure.

"Mem Tower Call sign so and so declaring a emergency with a engine fire indication request rwy heading climbout standby for further information. Mem Tower says no runway heading. Call sign so and so executing the published missed.

Flying Pilot tells NFP "Green Needles (raw data) Give me a left heading to intercept the 323 radial of Memphis VOR select course indicators to 323 outbound and select freq 117.5 to the active and select NAV Mode and continue the QRH."

Did this pilot just bust.

Missed Approach reads
"Climb to 1000' then climbing right turn to 5000' outbound via the MEM VOR R-323 to MREON INT/D18.0 and hold.

The above I just did in the sim under direction of the instructor.

I wanted to tun out at 700 AFE which is 1000' MSL for ILS 36L in Memphis with a TDZE of 321'

For our profile this would be right after selecting the Auto Pilot on at 600 agl.

The instructor said the Missed Approach procedure is only for if the radios are out or if ATC says to execute the published missed.

He said the "Climb to 1000' MSL then climbing LEFT turn is only the minimum altitude to turn unless it says "MUST turn" for obstacle clearance purposes.

In the scenario above I turned at or above 1300 - 1500 MSL which is just after selecting a climb on the Flight Director at VT speed aprox 170 kts.

1300 MSL is 1000 AGL which is our companies acceleration altitude.


I have been sitting here lookinga all over the regs, the internet, and the AIM to find out if what the instructor said is correct that 1000 MSL is the minimum only for the turn and that I can turn a little later after the priority of taking care of the engine out profile.

Please help before my check ride.

Don't want to turn out late if its not legal.

This was the worst the instructor could find for me.

Right engine Failure

Right engine Fire

Autopilot Inop

FMS Inop



Thanks Really Apreciate the help




.

 

[rgd]

The missed approach is what give you your obstacle clearance. You would have to make your turn at the prescribed altitude on the missed approach instructions. Your instructor is wrong and yes, you would bust. The 1000' straight out is only for a takeoff, unless there is some DP, or possibly if it was vmc and you could visually maintain obstacle avoidance on a go around (not a missed approach). Granted you can delcare an emergency and do whatever you want to do to meet that emergency, but as far as a checkride goes, the fed is gonna what to see you do the missed single engine.

 

[rgd]

By the way, I have never seen a missed that says "must turn"...They are all "must turn"! You might want to make sure your instructor and you where one the same page.

 

[efiscompmon]

Sounds exactly like Terry H's type ride in the CRJ at PCL--also exactly what my flow-back friend got on her type in the ERJ at Beagle.

Pucker-licious!

 

[belchfire]

But did you remember to wind the clock?

 

[hmmm]

Yea we were on the same page. We Pre-briefed this for 15 minutes. The NFP was an instructor too and he said nothing against it.

 

[AvroJockey]

Your INSTRUCTORS are Idiots!

Fly the published missed approach procedure!!! Unless your given alternate instructions by ATC - IN RADAR CONTACT, or VFR/VMC.

The missed approach procedures assure obstical clearance, declaring an emergency won't. If you try turning later in ROA, SCE, or any other "special" airport you will end up like a Pinnacle Airlines hat emblem (CFIT accident)

Additionally, acceleration altitidues don't apply to missed approaches. Airlines may incorporate similar standard altitudes in MAP profiles to keep things standard with TO profiles, but that altitude doesn't assure obstical clearance in a MAP

I'm assuming your a PCL pilot. If so you need to corner any of our Avro guys that have flown in Aspen, because they are all too aware of the dangers of not flying the published missed.

Tim

 

[AvroJockey]

Yea we were on the same page. We Pre-briefed this for 15 minutes. The NFP was an instructor too and he said nothing against it.

This really scares me, because I commute on you guys all the time. Don't get me wrong, PCL pilots are a great bunch of guys, but I can't beleive your instructors are teaching you this crap. This misinformation could kill people.

I commend you on trying to seek the correct answer, and not accepting your instructors BS.

 

[efiscompmon]

actually I meant Greg F, not Terry H.


of course if I were allowed to EDIT my posts.....

 

[House_X]

They can't give you two failures (i.e. two amber CAS or RWP's) at once on a checkride or trainning event...this is called "double jepordy". This seems to be an industry standard. Check your contract.