MEI as initial CFI

[FlyingToIST]

We are thinking about giving the initial CFI in the multi engine aircraft. I know ATP Inc. and some other schools do it this way, but i'd like to find out what is the experience of other people on this.

 

[Inconceivable]

I would suggest that you find a DE who is comfortable with it. FSDO inspectors in ORL have a near-100% first time failure rate on initial MEIs (read: they don't approve of it).

IMHO, it seems like a lot to bite off. You have all the airplane tech subjects, all the ME specific material, FOI, etc. all at once. Just an awful lot of exposure.

The "easiest" sequence is Initial CFII-->SE-->MEI. There is very little (relatively speaking) for the CFII to learn in terms of new theory. When you go to the matrix for ratings already held, having the CFII means you only need to discuss Principles of Flight and Airplane FLight Controls. Then the MEI is just ME subjects.

ATP also flies all of their students to a "tame" DE in South Florida with a profile that has not changed in a decade. Expect your mileage to vary.

 

[Sig]

ATP also flies all of their students to a "tame" DE in South Florida with a profile that has not changed in a decade. Expect your mileage to vary.

And thus an MEI ticket is issued.

The "tame" DE that did mine didn't act so tame when he tried busting me on the drag demo. I flew it perfectly, played chatty Kathy the entire maneuver, and we kept blasting through the PTS. On the ground, he says "Good job, except the drag demo. You busted altitude."

"Which altitude?"

"The one in the PTS."

....
"There isn't one."

"I'll bet you a pink slip it is, jackass."

"Here ya go, sir. If it's in there, I pinked. But it isn't."

thumbthumbthumb

"Well, schit. Congratulations, pr!ck, you're a CFI."

? "Uhh, thanks."

It's worth mentioning the debrief was the best I've ever had. Nothing but guns, knives, gubment cheese and a lot of off color jokes. Even talk about spinning a twin... which came in REALLY handy one day.

 

[sirius100]

Good luck getting someone's twin to take to FSDO. Fed's will be itchin' to ground it.

 

[Twisted Mind]

I did my MEI first and would not do it any other way. It is not as hard as the first poster is trying to make it sound. If you can find a DPE I would say go for it!

 

[Inconceivable]

It's not hard--just more material for the oral and I would NOT recommend doing it with a FSDO.

 

[Twisted Mind]

I do not agree I with inconceivable I think it is at minimum equal stuff to go through with the twin. At the end of your training you have to study and know all the information for the muti anyway so you are not really skipping a step. It is not more difficult or easy. The advantages are you do not have to rent an expensive complex single. The expensive time you must purchase is muilti-engine PIC. It helps the school because it does not have to keep an expensive often underutilized single. It also helps because the students basically have no option but to finish the remaining instructor ratings before a flight school will hire them. This is a good thing because some students hold off thinking they will get the MEI when they have more money ect. That never seems to happen then they are stuck because they used their loans and are unable to get more.
When I did my CFI ratings I took my paper work to the FSDO and they said I had only one option and that was to use a specific DPE. Each examiner must be approved to give an initial MEI in that model of aircraft. Most likely it will be with a DPE as the FSDO will not have some one qualified. South FL is a different world. I completed all of my lesson plans studied hard and practiced diligently. A week after my MEI initial I took and passed both my single engine CFI and my instrument instructor check ride on the same day in an Archer. I calculated out all of the expenses and I had saved a few hundred dollars by doing it this way. When you talk about these kinds of things most people will say something to the effect of “but we have always done it this way. Most people are afraid to think outside the box. Crunch the numbers think about the pros and cons. I think you will find few cons.

 

[nosehair]

I think you will find few cons.

I agree with your logic, and it can work for you, but it can work against you.

Here is one con I have observed when doing the MEI first. This is mostly about your personal proficiency and being aware of it may help keep you from falling into it.

When we start training as pilots, we get the idea that multi-engine pilots are superior to single engine pilots. I have seen questions that ask, "If you get your MEI first, do you get single engine CFI as a default?"

Same with Commercial. Some people think that flying multi is so hard and complex, that "if you can fly a multi, surely you can fly circles around a single."

You know what I'm talking about.

And there is a fact that an "add-on" is usually easier than an "initial".

So,...what can happen is that you lose sight of the fact that you are going to be a single engine instructor ar first. For the first few hundred hours, you are going to teach brand new student pilots all about P-Factor, and glides, and stalls, and stall/spin awareness, and how to use a light touch on the controls, and forced landings, and soft-field landings, and...

The reson I say this is that I have seen the product of getting lots of multi time in commercial courses with the MEI as initial in mind.

The young new instructor is not tuned into the intricacies of working the single engine with primary students. His/Her focus has been on airline/advanced/complex/etc...

He/She has a lot of difficulty with new students. They have forgotten what it was like, and the CFI training in a multi does not addres that kind of flight instructing.

The single time was just a timebuilder...

Singles are no problem...

But to a new student, they are. They are just as complicated as the multi is to you. And the new instructor with less single time should keep it in mind that the single time and single cfi is still important.

Unless you're just gonna be a MEI.

 

[landlover]

I would suggest that you find a DE who is comfortable with it. FSDO inspectors in ORL have a near-100% first time failure rate on initial MEIs (read: they don't approve of it).

IMHO, it seems like a lot to bite off. You have all the airplane tech subjects, all the ME specific material, FOI, etc. all at once. Just an awful lot of exposure.

The "easiest" sequence is Initial CFII-->SE-->MEI. There is very little (relatively speaking) for the CFII to learn in terms of new theory. When you go to the matrix for ratings already held, having the CFII means you only need to discuss Principles of Flight and Airplane FLight Controls. Then the MEI is just ME subjects.

ATP also flies all of their students to a "tame" DE in South Florida with a profile that has not changed in a decade. Expect your mileage to vary.

i did my MEI initial at the orlando fsdo and passed on the first try, so did many other guys i went through school with. i think its actually an easier flight than the single engine cfi. however i had over 200 hours in the duchess when i did my mei ride. i say go for it if you can do it that way.

 

[aviator1978]

Getting the MEI / ME-Comm first is going to be the way of the future, especially at 61 flight schools. For whatever reason, SE complex planes are becoming hard to rent. When you can find one, the cost difference between the SE and ME is slim. After getting the ME, you can do the SE add-ons in a 150. Price will be the same, and you'll come out with more valueable multi time.