medical amnesty

[johnpeace]

medical form convictions disclosure amnesty

I screwed up.

I'm a student pilot, working on my PPL and wanting to go on to comm and a flying career.

When I filled out my medical application, I was tired and hungry and at the end of a long day and just sort of rushed through it.

I didn't disclose
1) a traffic ticket that was unpaid and resulted in a suspension
and
2) a underage posession of alcohol offense

Both of these were like, 15 years ago and I just sort of 'forgot' or didn't think they were serious enough to mention or...I don't know, I just didn't note them on the form.

Now that I've been around aviation culture for a few months and see how the FAA operates, I regret not offering full disclosure on that form.

I want to rectify the non-disclosure.

Web searches have revealed cases of amnesty for previously undisclosed medical conditions or treatments...has anyone here heard of amnesty for non-disclosure of convictions?

I'm waiting to hear back from AOPA but am kind of anxious and just wondered if any of you had had experience with this sort of thing.

I'd hate to ruin my career before I even get started.

thanks

 

[moving2vegas]

15 years ago huh?

I must admit that legal issues like this are weak knowledge areas for myself and probably many pilots. I however must admire your honesty and desire to disclose. There are many posts on this message board regarding legal/ regulatory issues. Many are posts by aviation attorneys or very knowledgeable pilots and I recommend doing a search for legal questions in general. When you find a few people that know what they are talking about, PM then with the question directly. From my experience with what I've read on this forum, the general consensus with topics such as yours is don't shoot yourself in the foot. 15 years is a long time. Better to use whatever resources available, legal or whatever, and find out exactly what you have on your record before you disclose anything. After you have all the facts, then make a decision as to what to do. As far as ruining the rest of your career. NO WAY. The stuff you mentioned is relatively minor, not a felony, and long ago. I personally know 121 pilots with previous DUI's, domestic violence and assault charges, and numerous speeding tickets. They're flying as I'm typing, so relax. You've got a long way to go, and more important decisions to make, before you truly need to give yourself an ulcer worrying.

 

[johnpeace]

Thanks for the tip and encouragement.

I'm not concerned abotu the convictions being career ending, but am a little concerned about the non-disclosure leading to possibly career ending/limiting certificate action.

I'll look for some legal eagles on the board and ask what they think.

I'm waiting to hear back from AOPA and definitely won't do/say anything until I'm sure of what I should do/say to resolve this in as low impact a way as possible.

 

[Jump This]

Question about violent offenses

moving2vegas, I read with interest your post about pilots flying who have domestic violence backgrounds. I am curious, do you know if there is anything in the regs that would not allow that? Or would it be an individual company thing? I used to work with a guy who was just a flaming self-centered jerk, always on a power trip, he always managed to skate by with slightly shady stuff in his flying, then we found out later he had beaten his girlfriend, who was way too good for him. She turned him in and he lied and told everyone she left him. Everybody knew he lied. We wondered if the FAA cared about the violent stuff... he quit flying soon after that and we all wondered. It was a good loss. Just curious. Also, do you personally know the 121 guys with duis you mentioned? (If there is a reg about the violence stuff, would you post it, thanks.)

 

[avbug]

To address the first issue; should you disclose? No. You are not required to, nor should you. You were never required to disclose those facts on the form.

14 CFR 67.403 provides that falsification of the airman medical application form 8500-8 may result in enforcement action (which can include fines up to $250,000, imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and all pilot certificates). This does not apply to you, however.

The FAA is interested in a history of driving while impaired, or any violations or convictions for use of a controlled substance. Unless your traffic ticket resulted from driving drunk or on medication, or for being impaired in any other way, it's not relevant. Unless your juvinile alcohol event is related to motor vehicles, it's not relevant, either. Additionally, your juvinile record is sealed, although not from certain databases.

The only relevant questions on the FAA Airman Medical Application Form 8500-8 are lines 13, 18, 18(o), 18(v), and 18(w). See the form at http://www.leftseat.com/pdffiles/8500-8a.pdf.

Line 13 specifically refers to previous revocation or suspension of your FAA airman privileges...not driving. It has nothing to do with driving, nor with any former misdemeanor felony convictions. Strictly the history of your FAA airman (pilot, mechanic, instructor, rigger, flight, air traffic controller, etc. certificates). Line 13 does not apply to your situation or question.

Line 18 asks about your medical history, specifically the issue of substance dependence. This can be alcohol, or any other substance to which you have ever become dependent.

Substance dependence is defined by any of the following: increased tolerance, withdrawl symptoms, impaired control of use or continued use despite damage to health or impairment of social, personal, or occupational functioning.

Substance abuse includes the following: use of an illegal substance, use of a substance or substances in situations in which use is physically hazardous, or misuse of a substance when misuse has impaired health or social or occupational functioning.

"Substances" include alcohol, marajuana, PCP, cocaine, amphetamines, barbituates, opiates and other psychoactive chemicals.

Line 18(o) specifically points to alcohol dependence or abuse. Note that Section 18 of the medical application form doesn't ask if it's been in the past few years...but if you have ever had any of these conditions. In the case of alcohol, if you have ever been an alcoholic or had an alcohol problem, it's relevant. One does not stop becoming an alcoholic. One may go the rest of one's life being a recovering alcoholic, but one doesn't stop becoming an alcoholic. Therefore, if one has any history of abuse or dependence, it's relevant, and the FAA wants to know about it.

In your case, if you had an alcohol related offense as a kid, it's not relevant unless you had a dependence issue or an abuse issue.

Line18(v) most closely addresses your question. It specifically asks about a history of any conviction involving driving while intoxicated by or impaired by or under the influence of alcohol or a drug, or any history or conviction or administrative action involving in offenses which resulted in the denial, suspension, clcellation, or revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or rehabilitation program. Quite a mouthful, but there you have it.

Subparagraph (v) wants to know if you've been convicted of an offense involving driving under the influence. That can be alcohol, drugs, etc. That conviction may include a fine, forfeitting a bond or collateral, etc. A formal conviction isn't necessary. Defaulting on a ticket and being convicted in default under Failure to Appear is enough. Ever get tagged, released, and never went back to clear it up? In that case, this may very well apply to you. From your description, it does not.

Subparagraph (v) also asks about conviction or administrative action by any jurisdiction for which your license was denied, suspended, cancelled, or revoked. It also asks about any conviction which resulted in attendence at an "educational" or rehabilitative program. You are NOT required to report individual traffic convictions if they did not involve alcohol or a drug; suspension, cancellation, revocation, or denial of driving privileges, or attendance at an educational or rehab program.

If you did get a suspended license (or revoked, cancelled, or denied) for any reason, not just for alcohol or drugs, you must report it. Same if you had to undergo a reeducation program or rehab program in connection with a conviction for a traffic offense.

If you answer Yes to Subparagraph (v), you must provide an explaination. This must include the drug or alcohol offense for which you were convicted, or the type of administrative action involved (for example, attendance at an alcohol treatment program in lieu of conviction, license denial, suspension, cancellation, or revocation for refusal to be tested, educational safe driving program for multiple speeding convictions, etc). You must also provide the name of the jurisdiction involved, and the date of the conviction or other administrative action (school, etc).

On line 20, you provide the FAA with authorization to check and verify your records against the national driver database.

Subparagraph (w) enquires regarding non-traffic violations or convictions. These may include assault, battery, public intoxication, robbery, etc. You must provide the charge for which you were convicted, and the date of the conviction. Note that this subparagraph doesn't ask about arrests, suspicions, or anything other than a conviction. I mention suspicion, because in many jurisdictions, being associated in any way with a crime or inquiery will result in you having a record as a "suspect" in local or state police files. This doesn't mean anything, and should not be reported (and chances are, you'll never know about it).

In the case of the man who beat his girlfriend; unless he was convicted, he won't have an issue on the FAA Airman Medical application. However, if he holds an ATP certificate, he may risk suspension or revocation on the grounds that he has not shown good moral character.

 

[Jump This]

how would they know?

Not to stray away from the original post, but the guy who beat up his girlfriend was a dual ATP (f/w & helic.), but I wonder how the FAA would even know if he didn't volunteer it.. thanks for all the good info, a good review of what's necessary for all of us.....

 

[A Squared]

Avbug,

I'm scratching my head about your reply. Perhaps I'm missing something here.

You state that he shouldn't disclose those items on his medical, nor is he required to. Yet it seems to me that he must.

#1). He had his driver's license suspended.


Line 18, item V asks about alcohol and drug related traffic convictions, *and* it asks about a history of any convictions resulting in suspension.

In the words of the medical aplication:

"..or *any* history or conviction(s) or administrative action(s) involving an offense(s) which resulted in the denial, suspension, clcellation, or revocation of driving privileges or which resulted in attendance at an educational or rehabilitation program. "

and in your own words:

"If you did get a suspended license (or revoked, cancelled, or denied) for any reason, not just for alcohol or drugs, you must report it."

His license was suspended, I'm unsure how you maintain he isn't required to report it.

#2 He speaks of a Minor in possesion "offense"

Now, he is not specific whether it was an arrest or a conviction. If it was a conviction, it seems to me that it is something required to be reported in 18w as it is a "history of nontraffic conviction(s) misdemanor (presumably)

If it was an arrest with no conviction, than I would agree that it is not required to be disclosed.


As for your comments about juvenile records, I don't know enough about how juvenile records work, but the question is "have you ever in your life had....." not: "have you ever in your adult life had..........."

If he says not and somehow these things come to light, it seems to me that it could be considered falsification.

 

[avbug]

A Squared,

You're right. Looking back at the original post, I believe I didn't read, nor consider the mention of a suspension. I saw unpaid ticket, and let it go there. You are correct. Individual traffic infractions are required to not be reported, only if they didn't result in a suspension, revocation, etc.

In this case, it's important to determine what the license was suspended for. If it was for a conviction of the traffic infraction, then it must be reported. However, if it was for failure to pay a fine, against which no specific judgement was made, or a no-contest plea was entered, then that may be an entirely different matter. It may be, as not enough information has been given, that the suspension was for failure to appear, or failure to pay a fine, rather than a conviction for a traffic offense. The specifics will make a difference.

On a different note, retarding the ATP, the ATP certificate is the only certificate holding a requirement for "good moral character" as a condition of issuance. In order to establish a lack of good moral character, the FAA must show a pattern of conduct. A single incident is seldom adequate.

In the past, incidents such as a conviction of drug smuggling have been used to show a pattern of conduct showing lack of moral character. The board has also ruled that conviction of interstate travel with the intent to engage in a sexual act with a minor proved adequate to show that the pilot could not hold the ATP certificate.

In the case of physical assault and/or battery, certainly a pattern of this abuse could easily be used to establish that the pilot in question lacks good moral character.

As a side note, he doesn't hold a dual ATP, but a single Pilot certificate with several ratings. Therefore, he is a dual rated pilot with a single ATP. If his ATP is suspended or revoked, he loses all ATP privileges, rotor and fixed wing. However, no other FAA certificates are affected by this action. Therefore, if he also holds commercial privileges in those categories, he may continue to fly as a commercial pilot without the ATP privileges.

On a personal note, as far as I'm concerned, spouse or child abuse (and this certainly extends to a girlfriend) is about as low as one can get. I would give a rabid, wounded wild dog ten times the consideration as a spouse or child abuser. The world isn't nearly so small that such a person couldn't easily disappear and never hurt a soul again. Such a person picks up one end of the stick, they pick up the other. God help them when the realize what's on the other end.

 

[lawfly]

Thoughtful replies all. I merely skimmed them, so apologize if I'm being redundant. Here's some anecdotal info on a couple of the topics mentioned: Re "amnesty" and applications for medicals: I don't know the current status of this program, but many years ago I was involved in an amnesty matter as a legal representative, and the deal back then was amnesty for the "falsification" (which at the time was more of a DOJ matter than an FAA matter) , but FAA reserved the right to inquire into the subject airman's medical fitness for class of certificate held (such as whether there was a drug or alcohol addcition). As to ATP moral character, seasoned FAA attorney years ago told me of a case where alleged victim of the conduct at issue (wasn't physical abuse) complained to the FAA and it did ultimately result in certificate action under ATP moral character provision. Again, this is anecdotal, and not based on current research, but thought I'd post it.

 

[lawfly]

When I said "class of certificate" in my previous post, I meant "class of medical certificate", just to be clear.