ME v. SE commercial training path

[ericjones]

Hoping someone can help answer some questions. Currently finishing instrument training and not sure which is the best way to proceed. I plan on obtaining instructor ratings. Anyway, currently I have approximately 180 hours of which 70 PIC SEL, 40 SEL x-country, 120 instruction and 45 hood (not sure if this means anything except for instrument). At this point, no ME time at all.

My questions relate to which rating I should go for next; ME private/instrument/commercial or SEL commercial then the three ME's with ME commercial as an add-on? (or perhaps a combo someone suggests?) Read in other posts ME time is important but it is also important to log that ME time as PIC. Does doing all the ME time at once result in one check-ride for all three, and if so what are the commercial part requirements? Also, would all the ME time be logged as dual recieved and not PIC or would it be best to get the private ME then the others?

My goals are to complete training in the most expeditious and economical way available. However no skimping on any part as realize training is the building blocks from which you progress.

I realize there's quite a bit here but would really appreciate some insight from those who have gone before me. Any/all opinions welcome.

Thanks for everyones valuable insight. Eric

ps - I've read other similar posts and gained some perspective from them but just wanted to get an answer unique to my situation. I'd be glad to provide more details as needed.

 

[labbats]

As far as I have seen, ME PIC time is only important when you're way farther down the career path. For the initial 100 or 200 ME time requirements for most jobs, it's solely total ME time.

I suggest using the ME to build up to your commercial rating, get that first, then your SE. That way the time flown for your total time requirements is killing two birds with one stone.

 

[bobbysamd]

SE Commercial v. ME Commercial

A lot might depend if you are training under Part 61 or Part 141. Also, how many aircraft your training provider has, its instructor quals, and your finances. Under Part 141, you will basically take the program that is offered. You have more flexibility under Part 61, but not necessarily better organization.

At least two major 141 schools, ERAU and FlightSafety, get students their initial Commercial-Instrument in multis. After they earn their Privates and build up their cross-country time for the Commercial in singles, they go to the multis. They first earn their Private Multis so that any further multi flying is logged as PIC. Their final stage check is a combined Commercial-Multi and Instrument. The Commercial Multi ride isn't all that big a deal because it really repeats the Private Multi ride but to higher standards. They will have learned the single-engine Commercial maneuvers before getting into the multi, so their Commercial single becomes an add-on in a simple single because they will have demonstrated complex/high-performance operations in the multi. Or, some just stay in the multi for initial CFI certification as MEIs and CFI-Is because the rides are really the same as for Commercial-Instrument but in the right seat, and then add their single-engine ratings.

I like this program for a number of reasons. Students start flying multiengine aircraft early in their flying, which is good for their confidence. They receive value for their multiengine dollars. Flying instruments in a multiengine airplane is a good introduction to their likely career goal as professional pilots.

The other plan of earning Commercial-Instrument in a single and adding multiengine ratings also works. You won't get as many multi hours during training as with the other plan, but it might not be as expensive, either.

Both plans work. Plenty of people have started off in singles for their Commercial-Instrument and added their multis later and have been successful.

Finally, it is important that your training provider has sufficient resources to accomodate your choice. You would be delayed and increasingly frustrated if you opt for multi first and can never get aircraft.

Hope that helps. Good luck with the direction you choose.

 

[JetBlast2000]

Your key point seem to be speed and cost. As bobby said, it does depend on your school. Do they have established programs that must be followed? Sounds like you have some latitude. How far from your Inst. are you. At 45 hours hood time, you should finish soon. So, you should have around 200 hours by the time your ready to start your next rating. You should finish your CSEL requirements at around 210-220.

As you have seen there are numerous ways to proceed. A friend of mine got his Multi-Pvt at about the same time you have. His reason being that he could build some more PIC multi. As he told me, he never did any extra flying, and in fact it cost him lots more in the long run. You’re going to get the multi time (from training) sooner or later. The vast majority of your multi time will come from using your MEI (unless you luck and have found alternate methods).

I would recommend the following.

Start your CSEL ground school / Studying. Then go into the CFI ground school / studying. Get your complex endorsement prior to your 250-tt hours. You should be ready for the CSEL at 250 and if you have worked your butt off you could get your CFI shortly after that. Maybe at 260-270. From their you can start looking for a CFI job while working or your CFII. Which should only take another month or so to finish. Now your done in the single and you can move to the multi. Hopefully you have found a job teaching and you may have a student. Now you get into the CMEL and study to MEI standards. Followed directly with the MEI.

I was one of the few people at my flight school who went that route. I had my CFI at 265 tt and my MEI at 295 tt. Those who did it that way spent the least and finished first. Their were a bunch of us “racing” to see who would finish first.

Good luck

JB2k

 

[ericjones]

Thanks for the responses. Yes, am getting ready to finish up Instrument training.

The training facility I currently attend offers Part 61 and 141 courses. Under Part 61 they offer a 'Commercial ME land course' and a 'Commerical SE Add-on'. Do not see a 'Commercial SE land course'. The ME and SE Commercial components are not offered under 141. Without verifying, seems they would 'prefer' students take the ME path.

The idea of obtaining Commercial SE then CFI is appealing. JetBlast2000 wrote that based upon finishing Instr with 190-200 hrs I should be able to complete the Commercial SE within 220 hrs. Is this b/c flight training is comprised of tightening up private standards and learning a few more manuevers to Commercial requirements?

Thanks again. Will provide further details if needed.

 

[JetBlast2000]

The idea of obtaining Commercial SE then CFI is appealing. JetBlast2000 wrote that based upon finishing Instr with 190-200 hrs I should be able to complete the Commercial SE within 220 hrs. Is this b/c flight training is comprised of tightening up private standards and learning a few more manuevers to Commercial requirements?

I should clarify for you. You should finish the REQUIRMENTS for the CSEL i.e. night, x-c, solo etc. You won't be able to take any commercial checkride till you hit 250. My point is you finish all your req. by about 220, which leaves you the remaining time to learn the added Commercial maneuvers. Either way you go (CMEL or CSEL) you will have some time to fly with family/friends to get that 250.



The main thrust of this route is to get your CFI ASAP. This means lots of nights studying. It will take you several months to build up the 250. Use the time wisely. Now is when you need to sacrifice some Saturday nights for the books... If your a young guy that may be tough. Your total time will not be the deciding factor if you can get your CFI soon after your CSEL. It will hinge on your ability to absorb and teach the vast amount of information required by the CFI course.



It also sounds like your school does give you options. Your CFI may not want you to go that route. If that is the case make sure you understand why. Not just because he wants the multi time. Their are good reasons to do the multi first, just make sure your best interests come first.



JB2k

 

[ericjones]

Thanks again for everyones time, especially JetBlast2000, really appreciate the time and effort.

In the process of getting ready for Instrument practical. Should be having the 'path' conversation in the next week or two. I'll be taking notes and will update this thread after the initial conversation. Thanks again. Eric.

 

[Cl_65_Driver]

This is how i did it......private....inst....private multi....comm multi...single add on...you got to fly it any way for the ratings whats another 40 bucks an hour (give or take) when its twin time?