MDA/J4J/APL questions...

[91100 100 set]

Alright, I have been trying to get this information from my own union folks for some time to no avail, so I'll direct my question here...

In spite of all the rumored difficulties that USAirways is having getting the ball rolling with MDA (or MAA, call it what you will), I have heard that not too many APL pilots are expressing an interest in being recalled to MDA once it finally does get rolling, particularly on the right hand side of the aircraft. Rumors abound about them "going up and down the APL several times" trying to find interest without a whole lot of success. It has been more than 2 years since the big furlough at US, and I would imagine that many of the 1800 or so furloughees have found other ways to spend their time, be it at other carriers, selling insurance, fishing, etc, have decided to get away from the big mess altogether, and aren't interested in coming back.

The restructuring agreement that was signed by the 3 wholly-owned carriers contains a flow-through agreement that, as far as I read it, says that job opportunities at MDA will be available to pilots at "participating" WO carriers when the APL has been exhausted. (There is some debate as to exactly what "participating" means. We all know that all 3 carriers signed the agreement, however, due to actions beyond the control of the rank-and-file, only one is currently receiving J4J airplanes. If this flow through does become a reality, that little debate may become a sticky point, as the devil is in the details).

Which finally brings me to my question... does anybody know exactly what is going on with the recalls to MDA? Have they indeed been "up and down" the APL looking for pilots willing to sit in those seats?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

They have not been through the list for MDA yet.

They have been through the list twice for MESA J4J and had very few takers. Almost none for the right seat. They do still have to run the list for future left seat positions for Mesa, but as far as I know from being on the APL, Mesa is free to hire from the street for the rest of the right seat jobs. They called me twice for right seat and I am way down the list so I have no reason to doubt the completion of the mesa portion of J4J for F/O's.

MDA has yet to really get going, All the instructors are in place and trained, but last I heard the first class of regular pilots was halted halfway through due to certification problems with the sims. This was last week, so I do not know what the current status is on the sims. I doubt you will see many takers for the right seat on MDA. The current payscale doesn't really draw in the 5000 hour guys! Most of us have found much higher paying jobs by this point. Captain spots are a crap shoot. The company in effect is operating another Metrojet but calling it an express carrier and making 14 year pilots start over as new hires at their own airline, so needless to say there is some hostility toward the MEC about that one.

I doubt I will take the Captain spot when it comes to me unless something changes between now and then, too much of a pay cut. But I do not know how many others feel the way I do, only time will tell. For the most part, any of the APLers that are flying a corporate jet are making much more than they would as an MDA Captain, And the F/O pay is a joke for someone who has already been through the regionals. 99% of the APL has been Captain for some airline already, or AC in the military, and a large percentage have PIC time on widebody freighters and such....so I doubt the 35k that MDA is offering will be too appealing to a guy that can get hired directly into the left seat of any corporate job.


But to answer your question, No they have not run the list for MDA yet.

 

[B-atch]

MAA has begun to train pilots in the sim up in Canada. However, they have been running into multiple snaggs along the way and things are not geering up as fast as anticipated. The latest SNAFU occured just last week when the FEDS pulled the sim certification. It appears that the BOX does not simulate actual A/C performance. Particularly during single engine work..... Who knows all the furloughes might be holding Capt. bids by the time this thing is finally worked out.....

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

P.S Don't take any of the pay stuff as an insult, we all were that 18k a year F/O at one time or another.(Well, most of us!!) The only difference is that most of the APL guys have kids in college so 35k doesn't go very far. The few I knew that took Mesa only did it to fill the gap between finding the job they really want.

Most of the original 1000 furloughed have found flying jobs from what I have heard. Of my close buddies from the first round of lay-offs, about 14 from my former base, none of them are taking the J4J. Again money was cited as the reason, and for the few that the money was the same, they all said that their current job was more stable than an express carrier for a failing airline.....So far I cannot argue with their logic. Unless something drastic happens in the near future I have my doubts that U will survive to even get MDA running.

 

[MW44]

Here's a question for you guys/gals in the know. What happened to the 60 narrowbodies that Siegal was going to pull out of the desert to compete with SWA. If he did that that would result in calling back all the furloughees and give us WO pilots a shot at MDA. Is that all just talk to get the mec to sign off on more givebacks or is there a real possiblility of 60 more mainline aircraft?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

No more mention of the "60".

My guess is that the 60 mainline aircraft meant those 60 RJ's that Seigal is going to fly under u's 121 certificate, aka as Mid Atlantic!!!

I believe nothing that managment says anymore unless I see it actually happening. And all I see happening is managment screwing with labor more to try and take the heat off the fact that they do not know what they are doing!

I would not look for any recall of pilots, at least for the next 5 years. It took a greviance to get 6 back that were improperly furloughed from the last round.

My take on it, and this is just my opinion, is that managment is packaging for a sale all the un needed (in their mind) wholly owned (PDT, ALG merger) carriers. From what we are getting from the company, thru their propaganda letters and such, it appears that PSA is the only one with a future at U group. ALG and PDT are seldom mentioned in the plans. Of course the furloughees are seldom mentioned also, so If I were a betting man I would say that none of us really have a future with this particular airline.

As for our MEC it appears they are just trying to keep it going until they can retire, The MAA thing has effectivly destroyed the one union one seniority list values that ALPA supposedly holds dear. ALPA has signed off on MAA flying on mainlines 121 certificate but making the pilots go back to being new hires with no longevity credit........heck MAA doesn't even have its own MEC. MAA has its own contract and payscale and longevity and insurance etc etc and is ALPA but the guys that will be flying it have zero say in anything having to do with the contract.

Can't wait for the next contract at mainline, by the time managment gets through pitting both divisions of the same airline against each other we will be lucky to get burger flipping wages for the left seat of the 330's!


But just my opinion...I have to laugh everytime I see their newest brilliant plan to save this mess! I have no expectations of ever being called back, and neither do any of my fellow furloughees that I talk with, so that is probably the most telling fact of all.


Most of the guys still flying at mainline are trying to get hired elsewhere, Heck even members of the MEC are bailing out, There is a story going around about a MEC member voting in favor of concessions from his cell phone while he was in class training with JetBlue! Don't know about that, but I do know two of the MECers are now with JB so it would not surprise me.

Apparantly the MEC has also been given an anti lawsuit protection blanket from the company. Meaning that if the membership sues ALPA (which several have from what I hear) for their sorry representation in the last round of concessions (ie. no pilot ratification) that the company will pay for all costs having to do with the defense of these lawsuits. Not exactly the representation that I was promised when I signed up


I am not on the inside, just a furloughed puke that keeps track of what is being pumped out to us. So I make no guarantees about the accuracy of this info, Like I said this is what we are hearing, so that is all I can give you.

 

[MW44]

It's a sad situation and I know I am probably not in the postion to criticize but it is unfortunate that the US Airways MEC seems to have reached the point where they will give up anything and everything to keep the place going a couple more years. I don't know Pollok's story but if he agreed to those MDA payrates then he sure didn't make any friends with Coex or Asa pilots who are currently fighting for a new contract.

It seems to me like everytime U Mec agrees to more concessions it just encourages Seigal to ask for more because he knows he has broken the pilot group and they are now running on desperation. Again i don't mean to sound insensitive or arrogant but looking from an outside point of view it is really sad when you see a mainline pilot group effectively create a seniority list within a seniority list at D-scale wages without even giving these guys a voice in the union. I think it is reprehensible. I can't believe that we have 37-seat dash 8 captains making more than MDA 70-seat jet captains with 15 years seniority.

 

[Swaayze]

Don't hold your breath yet. They have not been very far down the list for MAA F/O, though once it cranks up (assuming it does - I wouldn't be surprised to see PSA utilized instead with "scope" relief for 50/50 instead of 100% and the green light to sell if financing issues mandate it) I suspect FO jobs will be pretty easy to come by. Other carriers, including PSA - the calls are winding down for FO slots but CA slots are still fairly senior. The apl that we have access to was current as of late Jan, before lots of guys realized that MAA pay wasn't going to be so great. For some reason many people seem surprised at the rates now that the pay dispute has been settled.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Just catching up on the latest stuff out there, Looks like they are working hard at putting wording in the scope stuff so that PSA can be sold with minimal effort. I have heard rumblings about PSA and MESA, who knows. It does appear that PSA will get the 70 seaters at 50/50 by what they are saying and then be sold to mesa (my take on it) So Seigal can get the revenue and everybody else can get the mesa bone job.

Doesn't look good from any angle anymore.

 

[B-atch]

growing Gray waiting for recall

I spoke to a US pilot yesteday morning. The rumored 60 jets are United airbuses that are being offered to US for a SONG (no pun intended) The plan is to use these things on point to point service...... But before you get you'r hopes up, he also told me that Siegel wants the pay-cap to be increased to 95 hrs. That being sayd, "find a confortable CHAIR somewhere and wait out the furlough"