Managesters

[P38JLightning]

Sometimes I think we pilots give managements way too much credit. We always think they are trying to do what's best for their companies, afterall that is kinda sorta their job.

But one could make an even stronger case that management it in it for, well, management.

During the Comair strike, management pissed away 3/4 billion (give or take) dollars just to keep 30 to 50 million (give or take) away from labor. This would never in a million years make sense for "Comair management." In other words, Comair, Inc will never realize the savings from that particular management decision. Ever.

Even if you travel up the food chain a bit, and look at it as a Delta management decision, other than keeping ASA from getting that 30-50 million (plus 1% perhaps) several years down the road, its still a horrible financial decision.

But, if you look at it from a management fraternity point of view, it starts to make sense. There is no doubt that Delta (or "Comair") management viewed that event as "taking one for the team." Leo was the unofficial spokesperson for the entire industry post 9/11 and recently Comair CEO Randy R just got appointed to his beloved RAA.

Much of the time what these managers do has more to do with their own personal reputations, golden parachutes, future employability and credibility with their fellow brandy sniffing, all too often ivy league cronies. Clearly if their primary mission was running and taking care of their companies they wouldn't always behave as they do.

So no wonder Jerry says he will drive a legendary company like Delta, with 3B in unrestricted cash into bankruptsy to get 30% cuts down the road instead of 15% cuts today.

Can't you just see him in some smoke filled country club back room snuffing out his Cuban cigar in 50 year old French Congac laughing with his buddies about their bankruptsy proof parachutes at the expense of evil labor, customers they couldn't care less about and shareholders they have no long term obligation to whatsoever?

I sure can.

 

[doh]

I don't think management ever does any thing that doesn't benefit management. If it also happens to benefit shareholders that's alright, if not, devil take the hindmost!

 

[JayDub]

Do a search on Mesa on this board, and form an opinion on what other pilots think of their contract. Had Comair settled for what the pilots wanted, that's exactly the treatment Comair's management would have received from their peers. They were most certainly willing to shut down the whole operation, just to prove a point.


Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[pilotyip]

Run an airline

All the pilots who know how to run airlines should get their resumes posted as quickly as possible, because the airlines are dying to find that kind of help. Reminds me of my brother -in-law, union electrician, beard, picture of Marx in his living room, strong pro-labor advocate, almost communist party membership. You know the "Give work for all, take only what you need". He started his own business, as a book binder, his view of the fellow workers as striving for the common good quickly changed to those worthless, lazy, never show up workers.

 

[mar]

Quasi-communist bookbinders

First a disclaimer: Every time I've worked for ex-pilot/management types it's been an experience that I've eventually regretted.

Pilots, generally, make horrible managers. And this has always confused me because CRM is nothing more than microscopic management.

What's more, I say all of this as a pilot with a management degree from ERAU.

Still I have to agree with everyone except Pilotyip. It's may be true that JayDub, Doh, and P38 don't have the qualifications to run an airline but you cannot ignore the wasted resources and shattered careers caused by reckless management.

The most current and shameful example is Atlas Air.

There is a perfect example of a great idea gone bad. Maybe it was a victim of poor timing but most probably it was commandeerd and flown straight into the ground by a few greedy individuals who saw an opportunity to cash out the company and break a union in the meantime, you know, just for fun.

It's this sick, almost sociopathic, decision-making that really gets me. It was never taught in any of my classes and I really wonder why the airline industry attracts so many mis-fits.

For every one Herb Keller there are five Jonathan Orinsteins.

 

[MedFlyer]

So no wonder Jerry says he will drive a legendary company like Delta, with 3B in unrestricted cash into bankruptsy to get 30% cuts down the road instead of 15% cuts today.

Can't you just see him in some smoke filled country club back room snuffing out his Cuban cigar in 50 year old French Congac laughing with his buddies about their bankruptsy proof parachutes at the expense of evil labor, customers they couldn't care less about and shareholders they have no long term obligation to whatsoever?

I sure can.

I think you've watched a few too many movies, but I digress.

Here's DL's dilemma:

DL has a crappy low-yield network. This isn't anything new....DL's always had a very low-yield network. Historically, DL offset this by having very low costs. Prior to the arrival of the LCC's, DL was THE LCC in the industry. Times have changed, DL is now one of the highest cost airlines. Unfortunately, they've still got a crappy low-yield network which has actually gotten worse.

Grinstein is left with a dilemma. If he takes only 15%, DL will get some immediate relief, BUT DL will still be left as one of the highest cost carriers in the industry. He'll then have to hope for a big yield recovery which may or may not happen. If it doesn't happen, DL will be left to flounder and slowly shrink away.

If he goes for the full 30%, he'll have to take some losses now as he fights it out with DALPA. But if he eventually gets the 30%, DL will likely be able to get its cost below the likes of AMR, UAL, etc and be able to survive and likely grow.

The bottomline: You can't have some of the highest costs in the industry while having one of the lowest yield networks. Somethings gotta give.......

 

[Publishers]

Atlas

The two biggest falacies in aviation are that management would rather scheme against the poor workers or plotting how they can protect themselves with even more elaboarte schemes.

The second falacy is that pilots are a significant gog in the success of the company.

Now I know that will get everones dander up. First of all, the poor workers in this case are for the most part, college educated, well paid, competent managers who know better.

Secondly, when you look at all the factors that need to be combined for a successful airline, pilots are one of the least important but certainly more vocal gogs needed to be successful.

Let's look at Atlas Air as an example. Atlas was created because the leasing company that the founder, Michael Chowdry owned, Aeronautics Leasing in Denver had some 747 aircraft come back from lease and he had no customers for them. In short, he started an airline to have them employed.

Like many companies, he was the driving force. When he died in a plane crash, the impetus that they had died with him. It was unfortunate that the timing worked against them all around. That is what caused the trama.

Comair, well that was more of making the point that you are not going to hold us hostage ever again and we are showing we will fight for it. You may see that differently and obviously do, but the fact is that it changed the regional picture not only there but at the others.

 

[Andy Neill]

Publishers said:

Secondly, when you look at all the factors that need to be combined for a successful airline, pilots are one of the least important but certainly more vocal gogs needed to be successful.

I'm pretty sure gog is a misspelling. What I can't figure out is if it should have been a c for the first g or a d for the second.

 

[General Lee]

Medflyer,

One thing that Delta has that the others do not is flexibility when it comes to unions. You never seem to state that. That gives Delta a HUGE advantage over the rest. The only major union we have is the pilot union (other than a small dispatcher union and ground school instructor union---very small). That's it. They can manipulate the pay or work rules of everyone else very easily.

As far as us having a "crappy low yield network"---I guess our INTL network is also low yield? What? We do VERY WELL on those routes (even though you don't think so....?), and our other domestic hub feed is not really low yield---Song might be. Song has a purpose--to go after that type of market and reroute them around the hubs--nonstop to their destinations allowing the RJ passengers to pay more money (higher yield) to go through the hubs. Those open seats on the 764's to FLL are now filled with higher yield paying passengers who just connected thru ATL from Peoria on that ASA RJ. Got it?

As far as highest costs in the industry---for which groups? The Pilots, and management. I thought everyone else is "industry standard...?" (That is what everyone states when we said EVERYONE needs to pitch in for pay cuts....)

Bye Bye--General Lee