Lower pay for Cargo Pilots?

[Masterplan]

I have noticed from other postings on this site as well as from general knowledge of the industry that cargo pilots routinely get paid less to fly the same or similar equipment. Can anyone tell me why the pilots for companies like this put up with that?
One example I have seem recently is Ameriflight. Supposedly their 99 pilots make less than 30,000 a year for the first few years yet they are flying a turbine airplane the size of a B-200.
One post on the corporate part of this site says that is what SIC's make on that plane for corporate flying and Ameriflight pilots are flying as a single pilot Captain.
I would love opinions on this subject and a reflection of the industry standard on pay for turbine aircraft as well.
Fly safe.

 

[El Cid Av8or]

My guess is that it doesn't mean as much if you're flying boxes around instead of people. Yeah, it pretty much sucks that you are flying in the worst weather, most of the time with poorly maintained aircraft and have unfavorable duty hours. That's what I understand freight hauling is. I haven't done it but most likely will after I get my ratings finished up and build some time to be part 135 qualified. I probably wouldn't really mind it though since it's kind of like being on the front line in the trenches, so to speak.

 

[hyper]

As a general statement, that's about right. However, I'll make more than twice this year flying a 310 as some of my counterparts flying regionals. Generally speaking though, I believe their payscale will escalate at a slightly faster rate than mine. They just have to avoid filing bankruptcy and find a way to feed their families in the meantime. I chose cargo for the excellent experiance and since you generally get paid more than regionals in the beginning. More power to those guys, but on principle I refuse to be responsible for 19-50 additional lives while the guy at the 7-11 that I get my coffee from is making more than I.

I would love opinions on this subject and a reflection of the industry standard on pay for turbine aircraft as well.

It's all ba$$ackwards and it all $ucks for the first 10 years or so. But that's what you get when employed at a job that is so highly desired with a lot of competition. "If you won't do it, the next guy will." It's almost like being forced into prositution.

 

[another cfii]

I've been CFIing for a year, and now just below 135 min (1000 ttl). I asked for a job at a local on-demand cargo flying CV-340 & CV-580. They give me the job flying right seat on the 340, with a 1 year commitment. I observe they do fly quite a bit on the 580, but not the 340. If i want to move up to SIC on the 580, I need to stick around an additional 1 year (so 2 year total). I'm more concerned about my flying time, since I don't see them fly the 340 that much, chief pilot told me to expect about 500/yr, but I'd be grateful if i get about 400 hr/yr. The pay was tough to gulp down, cuz it's just a bit notch up above CFI, which for me, it's alright, but should I stick with it? I know i'm not gonna be a CFI anymore, so I shouldn't pick up any bones employer throws at me, but in this economy... I think i know the answer, but just want any opinions on any previous Convair drivers, how much they get paid in the beginning flying SIC on Convair. Any info appreciated.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

At the company I fly for (similar to Ameristar) I fly as an FO in a mid-size biz jet, cargo. The starting pay for a new FO by next summer will be a base pay of about $41K.

A starting FO flying for Gulfstream (the co. that makes the jets) gets about $85 or so, but they're top of the line. It's all relative.

Cliff
GRB

 

[A Squared]

A starting FO flying for Gulfstream (the co. that makes the jets) gets about $85 or so, but they're top of the line. It's all relative.

GRB

By contrast a starting FO at Gulfstream (the company that takes your money) *pays* about $72 per hour, but they're bottom of the barrel. you're right, it's all relative.

regards

 

[Publishers]

Cargo Pay

The difficulty here is to understand that often pay is reflective of the industry. Your answer would be that cargo carriers are airlines flying airline equipment but the fact is that is not the industry.

Flying checks has a value. Regardless of aircraft, that value does not change.

Flying cargo is the same thing. Most air freight companies make their money off the cargo that is in trucks on an airbill and lose when the cargo has to be flown.

While difficult to explain here in a small area, it may be acceptable in one industry to have a crew flying an A300 makining a combined $300k and not in another. The reason is that in one case the revenue is sufficient and in another it is not.

 

[pilotyip]

Compared to what?

Is not cargo pay genrally above small plane scheduled pax for the same size equip?

 

[Masterplan]

I guess what puzzles me is that it is up to the owner of the airplane to decide not only what plane to fly but also what to charge the customer. It makes no sense that as a pilot I should get paid less to fly a King Air full of checks than full of people. If you can't make money flying a King Air because you either can't fill it up or your customers aren't willing to pay you market value for that plane and pilot then you are done. Out of the game. That is business. It is especially frustrating to see such a large difference in those salaries when the pilot pay is one of the smalest parts of the operating costs.

 

[habubuaza]

I wouldn't be surprised if UPS pilots ends up with an INDUSTRY leading payscale.

 

[abxaviator]

The cargo side can definitely generate a higher level of revenue for a given flight. Say you have 200 pax on a 767-200 paying a median fare of $500 ($1000 round-trip), that's $100,000 revenue for that flight. Now take the same airframe as a freighter with 90,000 lbs. of revenue freight at $5/lbs, that's $450,000!

Of course, as in all areas of flying, the flight crews will likely only earn industry standard or better wages/work rules if they are organized.

 

[BoilerBacker]

Personallyl, I believe it all boils down to supply and demand and the fact that freight rarely bitches (I would say never but every time I use the word "never" it somehow comes back to bite me in the ass) In other words, 1) freight doesn't get uncomfortable and complain or get off if the pilot who boards the aircraft looks like a 14 year old ie - lowtimer, 2) the only way for a business to turn a profit is to keep costs as low as possible. With an abundance of pilots out there looking to build hours, it only makes sense to pay only as much as it takes to keep a competant pilot in the seat and relatively happy.

As a pilot, I too feel that this sucks but it is the way it is. I believe that most cargo companies (I am NOT talking about FedEx, UPS, etc here) do NOT want their pilots to retire from them. They are there as a time builder for pilots aspiring to bigger/better things. The first they you must accept is that aviation is the ultimate "pay your dues" industry and the "dues" are genereally VERY high.

Good luck in your pursuits. As a final thought, the pay may suck but flying freight is a real blast.

Boilerbacker

 

[100-1/2]

Cargo generating revenue

Revenue generated from cargo is measured in cents per pound and Not dollars. Check haulers average 20-50 cents per pound while express box haulers (FDX, UPS, ABX and PAC) use a linear dimension pro rata somewhere in the same neighborhood well under a dollar per unit. Cargo requires more volume to equal the revenue potential of a bag of bones that will sue if they are killed. Checks are insured by the FDIC and boxes are hauled at shippers' own risk with optional insurance available. Insurance is pure profit for and paid to the air carrier. This kind of info is insightful and available from your accounting department or management. It will make you consider the consequences (costs) to late departures/arrivals and missorts that require 'special flights' or rerouting of shipments to make a destination and/or on time.

Yes, there is pride and nastalgia in Cargo. If only your neighbors knew how they got their paychecks and Christmas Gifts, ON TIME! Just think, you never have to hide from the Pax after a rough landing or slam-dunk approach.

 

[skytrucker]

The real reason....

Here's my insight to Masterplan's Question:

1) The pay scale as to do with supply and demand for PILOT'S, not what is being hauled. If there are lot's of hungry pilot's that want the same PIC turbine time, and no "industry standard" i.e pilot union, then you can get away with paying very little. Simple.

2) Although the pay does suck, it is better than what the regional's offer for the first few years. That's why it is hard to leave once you start. Who want's to take a $10,000 pay cut?

3) There are many times freight generates way more revenue than pax. That money goes to the owner's. because again; pilot's willingly work for almost nothing will get paid just that.

 

[Publishers]

Comparable

You just do not have a comparable situation here. Not many of these answers reflect knowledge of the air freight industry.


To say that someone is going to get the same for flying checks as people is just not reflecting the situation. By the way, if you are late with checks, the company gets no revenue at all, none!

Freight rates go all over the place. Much of the cost is in delivery to the door and not the main transportation. While supply and demand do impact pilot pay, the industry economics do more.

 

[B1900DFO]

Fedex and Ups guys make **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good money and the companies are profitable, ie, no concessions necessary. I think it is more a function of the bargaining power of the pilot group than the type of flying that determines salary.

 

[rtwo]

less pay for cargo?

Specifically which cargo companies pay less than which non-cargo operators?

Atpcliff, who I believe works at USAjet, wrote that by next summer their first year Falcon FO pay will be 41k per year. I've heard the base pay now is around 33k and that senior Falcon captains there now make over 100k. Admittedly that is less than Delta main line pay and it is also less than FEdEx or UPS pay but compared to say Horizons 22k to start and 118k for 20year captains a USA jet pilot will make much more over the first five years and over a career. Upgrades are quicker too and they fly all over North America