Looks like Ford & Harrison got another one...

[Voice Of Reason]

Delta Alpa=old Flops

DL CEO Anderson= Scheeringa in Ricci clothing (playing "good" cop)

NWA Alpa= been there done that, standing strong

Delta VP of "Human Resources" from Ford & Harrison =B-19

NWA CEO Steenland= Scheeringa (loves being "bad cop")

Sadly, they will see all we have at FLOPS and then some...

WTF has happened to this industry?????
WHY are these CEOs allowed to keep RAPING these companies dry, only to LEAVE with tons of money???

I also heard AMERICAN made something like 300 million last year BEFORE the exec bonuses of 500 something million put it into the neg! HOW IS THIS LEGAL??????

 

[Tanker1497]

Thanks for the enlightenment....

Since you obviously know so much about the situation...Thanks for your sparkling wisdom!

Worry about flops, I was there, and you have enough to worry about there, let alone worrying about us.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Since you obviously know so much about the situation...Thanks for your sparkling wisdom!

Worry about flops, I was there, and you have enough to worry about there, let alone worrying about us.

Then why are you "worrying about" being here NOW???? Obviously you're junior on the DL ladder and will reap the benefits of consorting with mgt for a "sweetheart deal," that, sorry to tell you, will no doubt NEVER pan out. It doesn't pay to union bust in the long run, you'll see.
Funny, it's so great at Delta, today of all days, that you stopped by here...
yeeeah...
Sorry you jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire..don't blame me:smash:

 

[fischman]

WHY are these CEOs allowed to keep RAPING these companies dry, only to LEAVE with tons of money???

Easy. They all are the "Moral Police of America."

Republicans...

 

[netjetwife]

I don't have the answers, but I share your disgust. Pay for fractional pilots is discussed at length at the bargaining table. So why not the salaries of the FLOPS? They're going to tell the pilots they can't afford to pay the industry standard so it's only fair that the pilots get to see where the money is being spent. Executive pay is outrageous as it is, but when those people are bad handsomely for running a company into the ground it does seem criminal and Voice's term of "rape" is definitely appropriate.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Easy. They all are the "Moral Police of America."

Republicans...

I'M a republican, and contrary to liberal mainstream media spin, we are not all corporate raiders, "evangelicals," and Bush lovers. The true meaning of what it is to be a Republican seems to have escaped many...not to mention, not all Republicans are conservatives, and not all democrats are liberals....those are just two extreme sides of the spectrum.
BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

 

[dime line]

I'M a republican, and contrary to liberal mainstream media spin, we are not all corporate raiders, "evangelicals," and Bush lovers. The true meaning of what it is to be a Republican seems to have escaped many...not to mention, not all Republicans are conservatives, and not all democrats are liberals....those are just two extreme sides of the spectrum.
BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

well said

 

[Mooneymite]

...BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

VOR, do you think it is time to think about a strong, unified union of ALL pilots to exert the necessary political pressure on our legislators to reign in these corporate pirates?

 

[ProFracPilot]

BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

And it is being done with labor's help (just follow the Delta/NWA debacle currently underway for a first hand look).

One solution, as is being discussed elsewhere in both the Fractional and Majors threads on this board, would be true unification of ALL pilot labor. Unfortunately just the opposite has - and continues to - happen (see ALPA/APA/DALPA/USAPA, etc. and now 1108/NJASAP). Don't think for a moment that "divide and conquer" is not part of managements playbook. It is happening now and is abetted by both the government and, sadly, labor leadership.

 

[Fozzy]

The problem I see is with the national. ALPA is a great example of losing touch with their members. Pandering to the most senior/majors.
So what you are seeing is each company breaking away to watch out for their own self interest. But there are many things that are in everybody's self interest. Those things can be accomplished with an association of all pilots unions.

Moneymite, you are close to what I think needs to happen at the Airlines.
Not sure if it needs to be from a national union. The problem is that no one has the stones to do what needs to be done to get national attention.
They should have STFD years ago.
Should have happened the day after USAir got to judge to agree to fold on the pension plan (USAir was first right?) It ended up affecting them all.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Don't think for a moment that "divide and conquer" is not part of managements playbook. It is happening now and is abetted by both the government and, sadly, labor leadership.

I absolutely agree... unfortunately within ALPA there seems to be no control at the national level that is KEEPING it a "union." Rather than fighting to make ALPA (or IBT) accountable to ALL who pay dues, people are breaking off into these mini, less potentially influential groups, while in the case of ALPA, individual airline MECs are acting selfishly rather than in the interests of the profession and the union as a WHOLE. They are damaging the profession, including their own as it all cmes back to bite them in the end. I COMPLETELY understand the unhappiness with any of these unions at the national level, but when groups as large as USAir and NWA become disillusioned, they have the financial power (and membership #s) to FORCE their national union to change. Otherwise, "divide & conquer" wins and the entire profession loses.

 

[fischman]

I'M a republican, and contrary to liberal mainstream media spin, we are not all corporate raiders, "evangelicals," and Bush lovers. The true meaning of what it is to be a Republican seems to have escaped many...not to mention, not all Republicans are conservatives, and not all democrats are liberals....those are just two extreme sides of the spectrum.
BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

You mean like Dick Cheney and Mike Huckabee? Whatever man. We don't need the "liberal media" to slander the actions of our moral leaders. Not when you have thieves and wackos like these men in the public light. They, and their friends, are the "moral police of America" and the reason for high fuel prices, high grocery prices, and the increasing fiscal irresponsibility ($4,000,000,000,000 debt=Republican)

 

[Fozzy]

Mick Huckabee supported the Fairtax (www.fairtax.org). That alone had my vote.

 

[Mooneymite]

Moneymite, you are close to what I think needs to happen at the Airlines.
Not sure if it needs to be from a national union. The problem is that no one has the stones to do what needs to be done to get national attention.
They should have STFD years ago.
Should have happened the day after USAir got to judge to agree to fold on the pension plan (USAir was first right?) It ended up affecting them all.

Fozzy, the fact remains that PILOTS have MUCH more in common than differences. The problem is that we have been much more successful in fighting one another than in fighting the true enemy of labor.

People tend to continue doing what they succeed at and avoid doing what frustrates them.

We are not doing well against big business; we are retreating into our own little shells of fragmented unions where we can be successful in fighting with other labor groups.

Let's recognize areas of commonality. Let's recognize the true enemy...it isn't "us" as the Pogo charachter said...

Without unity, we have no power. Without power we will continue to be slaves.

Old lesson, still true.

 

[Fozzy]

How are we "unified" at the IBT???????????????????????

At the IBT the NJA pilots are the we. There is no one else doing anything to support us at the national level. For that money we could hire our own lobbyist. The airlines division is a joke. No resources and dieing on the vine. Just ask ML about his time over there.

I agree we need an association of pilots that works, but the current model is not just broken but DEAD. Time to do something new and different.

edit. Sometimes it is better to tear down the whole building and start over. My not be easier or cheaper. But it is just the best plan of action.

 

[netjetwife]

....not all Republicans are conservatives, and not all democrats are liberals....those are just two extreme sides of the spectrum. BACK TO THE TOPIC, what these airline CEOs are doing should be acceptable to NO ONE. Growing a sustainable business is NEVER the approach these days...just who can steal all the money the fastest.

I agree that there's a lot of overlap in political viewpoints and many moderates in the middle.

Back on topic, to give credit where it's due, it appears that NJA is concentrating on growing a sustainable business. That said, the pilots definitely saw examples of corporate greed in the past, but now that they have strengthened their Union and are participating in joint committees, hopefully that type of behavior will not be repeated.

I couldn't agree more, many airline CEOs are morally bankrupt and their actions have caused unacceptable levels of hardship for the workers.

 

[gunfyter]

Mick Huckabee supported the Fairtax (www.fairtax.org). That alone had my vote.

I LIKE MIKE.

 

[Helmsalee]

Me too.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

from another thread, but great info for us here too: KNOW thy enemies

There are two big "labor relations" (aka, union-busting) firms that serve the airline industry:
Ford & Harrison, and Baker & Hostetler.
F & H is the most common, but both are filled with Lorenzo-era attorneys that have made an entire career of busting airline labor. The fact that they're making life difficult for the fractional pilots now too doesn't surprise me. Not enough to rape the airline guys, I guess. Gotta expand their horizons. May they all rot in hell.

http://www.martindale.com/Ford-Harrison-LLP/law-firm-111730-offices.htm (F&H seems to have offices covering airline HQs well)

http://www.bakerlaw.com/AboutUs.aspx?Abs_WP_ID=56b84b31-3f37-41eb-8960-e42b349976f6

And don't forget my all time favorite Seham,Seham and Smeltz.
PHXFLYR

(ed-- Seham, Seham, Meltz & Peterson, LLP http://www.ssmplaw.com/ )

Hope everyone is memorizing these names (and initials in the case of "F & H Solutions") and checking your corporate bios (HR especially). They won't necessarily list them, but often do.

 

[netjetwife]

All together now...

F&H = Ford & Harrison, more commonly known as FUD and Harassment

B&H = Baker & Hostetler. That one's new to me... I shall call them ... Breaker and Hassler.
I'm sure it fits....like a boot.