Logging XC time toward 135 mins???

[Pendulous Vein]

Hello everyone-
I have a question about being able to log cross-country time toward 135 mins. I've been told by several people that ANY flight landing at a airport can be logged, say, in a different column- something like "point to point xc." I haven't found anything in the regs about this, but haven't REALLY looked too hard yet.

My situation is this: I am a CFII/MEI, but I also fly the Traffic Watch every morning and evening- it's like 4 hrs. a day, which is not the best experience, (flying circles around the city) but oh well. It helps the pay check a bit. Anyway, I have about 350 hrs. of "normal" (>50nm) xc time. What I've been doing is this: I'll land at an airport that is on my traffic route (it's only about 20nm away), taxi back, and t/o, continuing my traffic watch. So, I've been told by a CFI/Freight Dog that I can count my entire flight as "point to point" cross country, to build toward the 500hr xc requirement for 135. I don't want to start butchering my logbook up and then find out I can't do this, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

 

[snoopy_1]

Here's a link to a post from a few weeks ago regarding the subject.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25187

 

[Pendulous Vein]

Thanks!

Thanks very much for the response. It answered my question. I really appreciate it.

P.Vein

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

Yes, you can

Yes, you can count those flight less than 50NM as x-c, BUT ONLY for 135 minimums. Everything else in aviation(private, instrument, commercial and ATP requirements, etc.) have to be at least 50NM.

If I were you, I'd would definitely keep your >50NM time separate from your <50NM time in your logbook. I just keep my <50NM x-c time on a separate sheet of paper.

The only question I have for someone who might know is what to put on the airline app? Both <50 and >50?? If anyone knows that answer to that, speak out.

 

[SDCFI]

ATP

PV, don't forget to also keep track of ATP x/c time. All you need to do is fly more than 50 miles from your departure airport, you don't have to land or anything, for it to count towards the ATP x/c requirement. A friend of mine who flew traffic watch in LA drew a 50 mile arc around his base apt, and when times were slow he'd fly out to a point beyond the arc and note in his logbook where he flew to. If you end up flying 135 you probably won't have a problem getting the req'd ATP x/c unless you want to get it right at 1500 hours, but it might help.

 

[Pendulous Vein]

Thanks again

That's a good idea. I'll start doing that- times definately get slow when keeping the world safe doing traffic watch....

So, if I fly outside that 50nm ring, does that mean the entire flight (2hrs) is counted as xc toward ATP, or just the time when actually outside the 50nm ring? I just want to be sure I'm doing this correctly. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the advice from everyone so far.

 

[upndsky]

What you put in your logbook is all legit until someone starts to question it. Then be prepared to back it up.

What I would caution against is logging the entire traffic watch flight as a XC. Someone might wonder why it took you 4 hours to go to an airport 20 miles away. When I was instructing, I would take my students to an outlying airport, but only log the time I thought it would take to get there and back as XC. I believe that doing it this way is staying within the intent of the rule and I had no problem getting the 500 hours.

As far as physical documentation, I keep an electronic logbook (Exel) that has a column for XC <50NM (which I don't fill out anymore since I don't need to) and a column for XC >50NM. My paper logbook that I bring to interviews only has the typical >50NM hours. That's also the time I put on apps and resumes. Airlines are most interested in total, multi and instrument time. I doubt total XC time plays a big role.

 

[TxPilot0878]

An additional thought!

PV,
I agree with upndsky in that you shouldn't log your entire flight flying traffic watch as cross country. When you get an interview down the road and it just happens to be a bad day for one of the interviewers (that knows the area you have been flying) and they pop the question how did it take you 4 hours....etc???

Log your point to points. Thats it and thats simple...its legit and it won't have you stuttering in an interview. If an approach is involved and there is heavy traffic or say bad weather....then it is obviously going to take more time to get to an airport 8 miles away than normal.

The requirement are for insurance purposes and not for any rating! I wouldn't have two seperate columns on your application for a couple of reasons...

1.) If you go straight to a commuter bypassing 135 then its kind of pointless (unless 121 wants x/c time, this is something I don't know either way...but I don't think so!)
2.) Once you've flown at the 135 or 121(regional) level then it really doesn't matter...they know your qualified and that if you've flown 135 you have the required times!

Hope this helps and best of luck!

Tex

 

[Xfr8dog]

personally i would only log the "50+ point of landing" as X-C. THEN I would get on the phone with the specific company youre interested in filling out an app for and just ask them what is ok with them (get a name). this keeps your log book nice and simple and still allows you to fill out the app honestly.

good luck to you.

 

[TxPilot0878]

The Point!

Xfr8dog, The whole point of logging everything under 50+ is to meet the 135 mins at a much earlier date! Your point is valid in as much as keeping up with your ATP mins...BUT!!!...

Pendulous Vein....your whole point is to log x/c hours torwards your 135 mins...then every point to point counts. Why tell a company you have 300 hrs. (50+), when you actually have (880+ point to point)...just poses a point. Don't be 2 years down the road and a helluva lot of money out of pocket when you realize what the requirements were asking! Then when you are competitive...but have been passed by numerous others who are qualified...you realize your mistake!

Cheers,

Tex