Logging over 8 hrs of flight instruction

[troy]

I took a private pilot on a x-country yesterday, the trip was planned to be under 8 hrs. We had unexpected headwinds and had to stop for fuel on the way back, which put the flight at 8.5 hrs. Is it legal to log it as 8.5 dual given? I didn't think about this when I signed his logbook last night, and put 8.5 dual recieved in his book, but haven't logged it in mine yet.

 

[JRSLim]

61.195 (a)

A flight instructor may not give more than eight hours of flight instruction in a 24 hour period.
So it looks like you went over 8 hours. You can either lie and log less than eight hours, which wouldn't match your student's log, ior you can log it correctly, bite the bullet and chalk it up to experience. You broke a rule (inadvertantly), but I think lying about it would be worse, and probably no one would hold it against you unless there had been an accident that could be contributed to 'fatigue'

 

[groundpointsix]

NASA report!
It's not likely that anything would ever come of this unless the feds happened to be auditing your log book, or you happened to be running around the airport telling people you logged over 8 hours of dual. That being said, you have nothing to lose by filling out the NASA report. This is the kind of thing it's designed for. As mentioned above, you could always go back and change your logbook, but that's dishonest and possibly illegal. (You do sign that line that says "I certify all entries on the page are true") Chalk it up to experience.

Also, you mentioned that your student was a private pilot. There's nothing in this case saying you have to log it as instruction. I'm assuming he's qualified in the aircraft as PIC. If so, that's your out for the next time it happens. Obviously, things are different if this was an IFR x-c or in a different aircraft category than he's rated for, but you're a cfi, you know how the whole logging PIC thing works by now.

 

[FracCapt]

If you did REAL flight planning(such as utilizing DUATS which plugs in winds and gives you estimated flt times, or just planned it in writing with winds figured in), you better save that information to show that it was PLANNED to be under 8 hrs. Unfortunately, there is no provision for delays due to weather(such as stronger than forecast winds), but if it comes to the point that the Feds are interested, you SHOULD be ok by showing that it was supposed to be under 8hrs, and only longer than that due to unforecast weather and/or ATC delays.

Something to think about, though.....and it's a gray area....but the regs say no more than 8 hours of FLIGHT instruction. What was your actual FLIGHT time? I don't mean block time...I mean strictly takeoff to touchdown.

edit: Disregard the comment above....I checked the wording of the regs right after I wrote this...and Part 1 defines Flight Time as:

Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing

 

[Lead Sled]

If you did REAL flight planning(such as utilizing DUATS which plugs in winds and gives you estimated flt times, or just planned it in writing with winds figured in), you better save that information to show that it was PLANNED to be under 8 hrs. Unfortunately, there is no provision for delays due to weather(such as stronger than forecast winds), but if it comes to the point that the Feds are interested, you SHOULD be ok by showing that it was supposed to be under 8hrs, and only longer than that due to unforecast weather and/or ATC delays.

Personally, I think that's good advise. Just be able to show that you had legitimately planned the trip to be legal and the extension was out of your control. Forget the NASA Report - that's for inadvertent or unintentional violations. Unless you were making an oceanic crossing, you probably overflew many suitable airports prior to landing at your destination. By not landing at one of them, you chose to violate the regulation and a NASA report won't cover your fanny. You definately don't want to intentionally mislog a trip to cover up a violation - that's an entirely different matter. Don't do that!

Your best course of action now? Do what FractCapt said - keep a copy of your flight planning in case any one decides to ask questions. In the future don't be so ambitious - an 8 hour training flight with a student? What were you thinking?

Lead Sled

 

[Tired Soul]

Oh please...

A NASA form for .5?
Let's be realistic here..correct his logbook and put whatever in yours as long as it's below 8hrs dual. eg do not put the destination in but the refueling point, that's were you stopped giving him flight instruction and started being a passenger.

 

[nosehair]

Here's a thought. What you should have done, is stop instructing at the eight hour point. Of course, continue to fly, as a dead weight passenger, since he was a private pilot, he can still log the time, so the logbook entry would show a total x/c time as 8.5, but with only 8.0 dual. Some of our flights should really be logged that way anyway. The dual, like night and/or instrument, can be just a portion of the flight.

 

[troy]

I did fly some of the trip when he got tired of hand flying (the autopilot is inop). I think that for the .5, I'll not count it as dual given. The diversion was longer than that....

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

1. Why over 8 hours for a private cross-country? Your student must have been
in great shape by the end. How many nav logs did they have to fill out?
2. In my years as an instructor, I was forturnate enough to "push" the eight hour
limit every now and again. Just log the portion of your instruction given over
8 hours on another day.
3. No fed is going to come searching through your logbook to see if you broke 8
hours, they have more important things to worry about.
4. Fly what you want, log what you need!!

 

[standaman]

It is not good to lie. Let me repeat. It is not good to lie. Sharp interviewers will find it when you are looking for a job. Tell people what happened if you are every in trouble with the FAA or on an interview. That and we should not be pushing the forgery or breaking of any FARS to anybody I don't care who it is either a student pilot or 777 captain. Degrades aviation. Most people understand other people make mistakes.

My opinion