Logging of PIC time during instrument training?

[Fearless Tower]

I have heard a few different answers to this and am trying to figure out what the real story is as far as logging PIC time while doing instrument training.

FAR 61.51 states that a Private Pilot may log pilot-in-command time for that flight time in which that person is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has priveliges.

So, if I am receiving instrument training and flying with a CFII under IFR and am the sole manipulator of the controls, am I able to log the flight as both dual received and PIC, or just dual received? The FAR seems to only refer to category and class and type rating not instrument rating.

Thanks for any input.

Andrew

 

[midlifeflyer]

You are correct. You are reading 61.51 exactly right. "Logging" PIC as the sole manipulator under 61.51 requires only the applicable aircraft category and class ratings.

FAA Legal said so more than 25 years ago. The folks that say no just need to catch up a little on their reading.

 

[CJCCapt]

You may log it as PIC. You are rated in the aircraft and sole manipulator of the controls as stated in 14 CFR 61.57(e). Realize the "difference" between this PIC time and the definition of "Pilot in Command" as stated in Part 1.1. You do not have "final authority and responsibility for the flight". The CFII does. The PIC time you log here will help you meet the PIC time requirements for future certificates and ratings. If you are working toward an airline job someday, this is the type of PIC time prospective airlines almost always eliminate from your PIC totals.

 

[Doozer]

Not only can you do that, if your instructor is creative, you can also use that PIC under the hood time toward the 50 PIC cross-country hours required for the instrument rating.

By structuring a landing at an airport > 50 NM into my lessons, I kill two birds with one stone. The examiners never questioned it.

I've trained several candidates and sent them for their practical tests who have had between 100 & 200 hours; one (a minister) barely had 100 total time.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Thanks for the clarification all!
Andrew

 

[FlyingToIST]

How about the PIC time when they were student pilots and they were flying solo? Can that be considered towards PIC time that is required for Instrument Rating?

 

[time builder]

How about the PIC time when they were student pilots and they were flying solo? Can that be considered towards PIC time that is required for Instrument Rating?

yes:

4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.