Logging IFR

[Kream926]

you guys flying above FL180, is that considered instrument time even if its vfr, eventhough there's really no such thing as vfr above 180. any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[avbug]

"IFR" means Instrument Flight Rules. This refers to regulations, not conditions of flight. Flying under IFR does not suggest that one is in conditions that make flight by reference to instruments necessary, or that one is in instrument conditions.

Accordingly, there is little point in logging "IFR time."

One should log instrument time. However, simply because one is operating under IFR does not imply that one is entitled to log instrument time...because a great deal of IFR flying isn't in instrument conditions. Conversely, one may log instrument time under VFR...the rules (IFR vs. VFR) have nothing at all to do with logging instrument time, but the conditions of flight have a great deal to do with logging of instrument time.

Being above FL180 does not suggest anything about the logging of flight time, nor should one log instrument time merely because one is operating above FL180. One should only log instrument time when one is in conditions that require flight instruments to safely operate the airplane. These conditions may be simulated or actual instrument conditions external to the cockpit. If one is ot in these conditions, one should not log instrument time.

 

[Kream926]

sweet, thanx

 

[pc12_driver]

But, when you are above FL180, aren't you navigating soley by instruments?

 

[paulsalem]

Nope, sectional & binoculars

 

[Swerpipe]

It's all about the horizon

But, when you are above FL180, aren't you navigating soley by instruments?

No, the phrase "flying by instruments" means using instruments to orient the aircraft in 3-d space. Are you right side up? Are you in a descending turn or climb turn? Are you in level flight? Any time a pilot "loses" the horizon or visual reference with the World and needs instruments to know his orientation in space then he is flying "solely to instruments". In this context instruments is refering not to navigation or monitoring data but only to aircraft orientation. Night VFR flight on a moonless night over the Southwest deserts is often "instrument" conditions. If you were at 9,000 MSL with a vis of 3 miles you would most likely be flying instruments yet you are performing VFR flight. So log the portion of the flight in which your instruments provided the orientation of the aircraft because conditions were such that only with reference to these instruments you were able to maintain aircraft control. It does not refer to portion of the flight that you are VFR or IFR.

 

[UnstableAviator]

Nope, sectional & binoculars

I actually did "Lol" at this!

 

[paulsalem]

Gotta be careful I get black eyes every now and again due to turbulence.

 

[User546]

OK, well let me add this into the discussion.

Anytime your above FL180, your on an IFR flight plan, and the only time you should legally log Instrument time is when your flying the airplane soley by the reference of your instruments.

BUT, in the airplane I fly in, as most corporate jet operators out there, 99.9% of the flying above those altitudes are done using the autopilot.

I asked a captain about this one time, and he said you should still log instrument time if your in IMC conditions with the autopilot on, because your still manipulating the control of the aircraft using the autopilot.

Any thoughts or clarification on these kind of situations?

 

[midlifeflyer]

But, when you are above FL180, aren't you navigating soley by instruments?

Navigating isn't the issue. Keeping the airplane upright is.