Logbook accuracy

[kansas]

Most just ballpark it, but technically... "Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the American Air Almanac, converted to local time."


What's published is approximately 30 minutes (give or take a few minutes) after sunset...

Here's a chart that displays both civil twilight and sunset/sunrise times for each day.


http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.html


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Thanks Amish!

No, not at all. This is one of the more persistent myths in aviation, that an ATP can sign off dual instrucion anytime. I find it a little mystifying why so many people have this one wrong, as it's fairly simple to see that it's not true by reading the regulations. The provision for an ATP to give instruction is a very specific limited provision. The provision is intended to allow airline pilots to give instruction to thier co-pilots, or check airmen on a 135 certificate to instruct without an instructor certificate. It does not bestow all the priveleges of an instructor certificate on anyone who holds an ATP

If you are truly being instructed in air transportation service, you are going to be an assigned crewmember anyway, so you don't need to depend on this limited defintion to log the time.

What is really needed here is an FAA definition of "air transportation servce." Otherwise, your assumption of their intention is just as good as mine. Not trying to be cantankerous here, but if you could in fact find the definition, you would undoubtedly be correct.

 

[A Squared]

Thanks Amish!



What is really needed here is an FAA definition of "air transportation servce." Otherwise, your assumption of their intention is just as good as mine. Not trying to be cantankerous here, but if you could in fact find the definition, you would undoubtedly be correct.

There is an FAA definition of air transportation. It's right where all the other regulatory definitions are. It's a slightly circular definition in that it uses the term in the definition, but i5t can in now way be construed as allowing an ATP to have general flight instructor priveleges.

 

[kansas]

There is an FAA definition of air transportation. It's right where all the other regulatory definitions are. It's a slightly circular definition in that it uses the term in the definition, but i5t can in now way be construed as allowing an ATP to have general flight instructor priveleges.

Thanks, I'll look for it.

 

[avbug]

Logging PIC in King Airs when not the manipulator is undoubtedly shady.

It is? Can you explain that, with references?

 

[epic!]

a good way i found to keep your logbook accurate is to download one of those free electronic logbooks for your computer. enter in your data and double check with your actual book

 

[avbug]

FAA Order 8710.3D (Designated Pilot and Flight Engineer Examiner's Handbook), Chapter 11, Section 1:

A. Flight Instructor Endorsement. An applicant for a type rating to be added to an existing ATP certificate or for the original issuance of an ATP certificate in an airplane requiring a type rating must have an endorsement in his or her logbook or training record (per § 61.157(b)(2)) from an authorized instructor certifying completion of the training required by § 61.157(e).
NOTE: FAA Form 8710-1, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, does not require instructor endorsement or instructor recommendation.
(1) The training required by § 61.157(e) may be conducted by instructors in an approved training program under parts 121 or 135 for pilot employees of those air carriers.
(2) Under the provisions of § 61.167, the holder of an ATP certificate may train other pilots in air transportation service. The ATP certificate holder must hold the appropriate aircraft category, class, and type rating, if applicable. The ATP certificate holder need not hold a flight instructor certificate. However, to provide training under the provisions of § 61.167, both the holder of the ATP certificate and the applicant must be pilot employees of that air carrier and the training must be conducted in an approved training program under parts 121 or 135, as appropriate.
B. Instructor Recommendation. The Instructor’s Recommendation section on the FAA Form 8710-1 application need not be signed for the original issuance of an ATP certificate; however, in the case of a failure of the practical test, the applicant must obtain an instructor’s recommendation. (See § 61.49(a).)
(1) The recommending instructor for a retest must hold an instrument instructor rating and the appropriate aircraft category and class ratings for the aircraft to be used for the test.
(2) The instructor does not have to hold an ATP certificate.
(3) An instrument instructor rating is not necessary if the practical test is for visual flight rules (VFR) privileges only. (See § 61.157(b)(3).)
(4) The instructor who provides the training is not required to hold a flight instructor certificate if the training was conducted in an approved training program under parts 121 or 135, as appropriate, and both the instructor and the applicant are employed by the same air carrier in air transportation service. (See § 61.167(b)(1).)


FAA Chief Legal Counsel Interpretation:

MAR. 5, 1976
Mr. W. A. Dennison
Dear Mr. Dennison:

This is in response to your request for interpretation of Sec. 61.169 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, and confirms our telephone conversation of more recent date. You specifically ask whether an airline transport pilot may instruct a commercial-instrument rated pilot, in an aircraft of the category, class, and type for which the ATP pilot is rated, for the purpose of attaining an airline transport pilot certificate.

Section 61.169 states, in pertinent part, that an airline transport pilot may instruct other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, class, and type for which he is rated. Part 1 of the Federal Aviation Regulations defines air transportation as interstate, overseas, or foreign air transportation, or the transportation of mail by aircraft. The last sentence of Sec. 61.169 provides that, "unless he has a flight instructor certificate, an airline transport pilot may instruct only as provided in this section".

Based on the foregoing, Sec. 61.169 authorizes an airline transport pilot to give flight instruction which may be logged by the recipient for the purpose of obtaining an airline transport pilot certificate, only if the recipient is engaged in air transportation service.

We regret the delay in this response and trust this satisfactorily answers your inquiry. If we can be of any further assistance, please let us know.
Sincerely,

CARL A. DANIELS
Chief, Airmen and Airports Branch
Regulations and Codification Division
Office of the Chief Counsel

 

[A Squared]

Kansas,

You might take a look at the preceeding Chief COunsel opinion and the excerpt from the DPE handbook.

Otherwise, your assumption of their intention is just as good as mine.

Well, gee whiz, turns out your assumption of the regulations was *not* just as good as mine. Turns out my "assumption" is pretty much identical to the official view of the FAA on the matter. It wasn't an assumption, and it wasn't something I just pulled out thin air.

 

[kansas]

Kansas,

You might take a look at the preceeding Chief COunsel opinion and the excerpt from the DPE handbook.



Well, gee whiz, turns out your assumption of the regulations was *not* just as good as mine. Turns out my "assumption" is pretty much identical to the official view of the FAA on the matter. It wasn't an assumption, and it wasn't something I just pulled out thin air.

Alright, alright, chill out buddy...I was just trying to get you to cite your sources...

It actually appears that the FAA is contradicting itself in that the letter does not mention the 121/135 requirement, but the DPE handbook does...hmm.